[Mike harris]

What do you run on your truck man?

The graf is what we will be doing, thanks for the info mate but I won’t be changing axles, I’ve been competing for many years on Suzuki axles and that’s part of what the vehicle is, and why we keep pushing to make stuff better and improving it, there fine for how I drive and what I want from the vehicle, all other axles are inferior, Suzuki axles for cool people only !

I have cruiser, patrol, Dana axles options but there’s no fun, I’d rather push my axles, break them, come up with ideas on making them better and move forward.

We are doing a big event in Scotland called the mayhem in January, should be good !

Hope everyone’s keeping well guys, my truck will be back soon from the shop where it’s having a tray and that made.

[Stevemeister]

Yeah, makes sense. There are a lot of british rigs running in the graf series.
I've been at the graf in 2016, but only as a spectator.
It's very demanding, the night stage is perfect to put a wheel in the wrong place and turn it upside down or snap an axle.

You can check my build thread on the rigs section under "Tamagotchi Samurai", it's a samurai on 33" CSTs.
It's going to run the same RCV shafts you have with a selectable locker.
I do smaller events, but you can't even compare them to CPT/GRAF/King.
I've ran a CPT4x4 race as a Co-pilot in a friend's twin locked GQ/y60 patrol with a BMW m57 and 37" treps in the PROTO class.
We snapped a front RCV shaft and couldn't winch up an obstacle (front wheels would get stuck under a ledge), soo we had to retire.

Take a look at ERM 4x4's (french 4x4 shop) comp rig. Portals on samurai axles.
They run 2 front samurai axles, with rear steer.
It looks like they are running 33" or 35" silverstones on a 16" wheel.
Not that tall for portal axles.

They make lift kits and drivetrain parts, you could probably ask them to build you a set of portals to fit your new axles shafts and rcvs.
The first 2 pictures and video are of their old setup (gears), the 3rd one is their lastest portal on jimny axles (chain).
https://youtu.be/G4i54lzBSt4

[Mike harris]

That’s a sick setup

Great to see Suzuki axles being pushed

We have lost sight over here of events it’s all winching axles and clearance account for very little over here

But that said I’d love some of them !!

[alien]

Yeah but with portals you can run a smaller tyre and still have epic clearance with less unsprung weight, and the portal boxes can create a gear reduction at the wheel, taking load off the axle... They're impressively compact boxes too!!!

[MrRocky]

Portals offer more clearance but generally are weaker than solid axles especially when winching.
Looks like they have tried to beef theres up substantially to stop the box sections snapping

[Mike harris]

I think if I ever did portals I would go Volvo, but in uk there now huge money, portals are very cool indeed but the ease of working on suzuki axles during events is one of the reasons I kept them.

It’s cool to see people still pushing the suzuki axle to its limits and trying new stuff very cool !

[Mike harris]

I did the first proper event with the truck last weekend

Shafts held up well

Sheered a drive flange off, all the bolts must have come loose and then been chopped by the drive flange.

That was hardened boots with nordlock washers, so think might have to have a little upgrade there or keep remembering to check there tight after a few hours use !

Hope everyone is well

[Mike harris]

Axle shafts still good, did some launches in the car at another event of the line that I wouldn’t dare do before on the old shafts.

Had a look at the shafts and there all still good, removed the spindles to check they haven’t fowled them and again no marks to suggest that either.

I do now think the fronts will end up being the problem but they have all held up for what I’ve put them through so far.

If this ever becomes a problem for me again il probably lower the car right down and fit portal axles from a Volvo c303.

But in the mean time the Dana pattern in suzuki differential seems to be alright, that’s on a heavy 38.5 maxis mud trepador on a 11 inch wide steel wheel as well, I think the gains would be even better with a lighter wheel and tire package.

[Gwagensteve]

That's a good outcome Mike.

I have my 60 series axle at home now and it's BEEF. The axle I have probably did 305759573758km under a 60 series and then did a heap of hard trips very hard driven on 37's, and the splines are perfect.

The axle seal is in the end of the spindle (didn't know that!) which makes welding the spindles in a breeze.

quite excited to get into this.

[Gwagensteve]

Here's where I'm heading with my build. It's a little heavier than I'd like, but it looks to be quite achievable with minimal custom work.

Quick note: for a little while these axle build details will be cross posted here from my the Hedgepig! thread. It's easier for people to find here if they're searching than 49 pages into my build thread.

This is looking like a piece of cake, at the hub end at least, Diff TBC but I'm unconcerned about that at the moment.) If this works it's going to change the game almost as much as a 79 series with a canopy on the back.

Bless Hitachi/Aisin Warner and whoever else was involved in making this stuff that it's surprisingly similar.

For those that aren't across my situation, I've broken multiple rear axles in my car. It's been full float/vitara rear for many years. I think I've broken 4 rear axles, 3 short side and one long. I'm over being in situations I could drive out of and breaking axles because they're not strong enough. If the whole sidewall of the tyre is on the ground the axle goes. My last rebuild of the car was about dropping weight and transferring load onto the front wheels, along with upping the gearing and making sure the housings were dead straight. It's not enough.

I"m aware that in other countries land cruiser stuff is expensive and that might not make this feasible for everyone (anyone?) else, but old 60's are pretty worn out and rusty now and driveline parts are very available.

Here's what I'm working with.


Here's the impetus for the job. That's a 1.31" (33mm) full floating axle. A Sierra has a 26 spline, 1.05" (26.6mm) axle. That 60 series axle did goodness knows how many km in a 60 series and then was beaten on like a red headed stepchild for years in Luke's "Blue" running 37's on -44 10" beadlocked rims, and there's no spline wear and they're straight. for reference, the "gold standard" of heavy duty north American axles up until people started working with 40 spline was 1.5" 35 spline.
Yes, they're the same size and hilux axles, but hilux are semifloating so they're ~40-50% weaker and axle failure means the car can't be driven, there's only one wheel bearing which isn't serviceable etc.



First thing to work out was how I was going to graft the 60 series spindles onto the suzuki axle. Vitara tubes are 70mm OD and the Landcruiser axles are 80mm OD. Currently, I don't know how thick the cruiser axle tubes are (interestingly, they're seam welded.)

Initially, I checked to see how the WMS related to the spindle.

This was pretty interesting, and completely changed my ideas about how this was going to work.



Here's the Sierra. That edge with the RTV is where the Sierra spindle bolts to the welded on spindle adapter.

And here's the same measurement on the 60 series axle.





I wasn't expecting that.

So here's the plan.

The spigot on the inside of the Sierra spindle is 80mm OD. so that's the bore of the spindle adapter.



The forged spindle is ~83mm diameter. I imagine there is PLENTY of thickness here. (The vernier is super hard to read in this photo but it's 83.3 or something.



So, *rubs hands together* the plan is:

Cut the spindle off the axle. leaving something like 20mm of axletube.
Turn the cruiser axle tube/spindle root down to 80mm OD (remember the tube is already ~80mm, it's really only the root of the spindle that needs cleaning up, removing the weld cap etc
Press the spindle into the sierra spindle adapter. The turned down cruiser axle tube can actually press into the Vitara bearing housing which is also 80mm bore, so the spindle will be keyed into the vitara bearing housing. A huge improvement over what I currently have.

Weld the cruiser spindle to the Sierra spindle adapter.

Job done for the spindle fitting.

The Landcuiser hub needs to be turned down to fit inside the Sierra rotor, and redrilled on 5 on 5.5.

A brake calliper bracket will be made up that bolts to the existing brake backing plate bracket on the cruiser spindle, which is beefy. Alignment will be very close - it won't be a complex thing to make.

I REALLY like this solution as I already have shock mounts welded to the Vitara bearing block and suspension link brackets very close to it. I was going to be up for a LOT of work if I had to cut them off to, say, sleeve the landcuiser axle tube over the Vitara tube.

I can then turn my attention to the diff and axles.

I'm still working on an airlocker solution, but in the meantime, this is why I'm not too concerned about what I can achieve at the diff end now I have a beefy spindle.



Here's a Sierra drive flange sitting on the 60 series hub. Pretty much everything japanese with a free wheel hub runs this same pattern. If I can't achieve 30 spline. I can broach or buy drive flanges which will suit whatever I can fit in the diff. In fact, I believe it's possible to bore landcruiser spindles to take 1.5" 35 spline axles from a Dana 60/70/80.

I'd love to be able to mix and match cruiser rear axles to achieve the track width with stock toyota parts, but I don't think that's possible and the design of the 60 axles means they can't readily be shortened.

As an aside, I don't even have to remove the old seal adapter I pressed into the Vitara bearing pocket. It's bore won't interfere with any axle I can run.



Happy times.

[Gwagensteve]

I realised I had a 12 bolt Vitara diff hanging around, so I checked it for journal clearance.



Well hello there.

That's a 30 spline axle clearing (just, but let's not be picky) the journal of a stock vitara diff.

outcome of this I shouldn't have to machine the case of an air locker to clear a 30 spline axle. If the side gears can't be swapped, I can have the vitara side gears broached to 30 spline.

A believe a Sierra runs the same carrier bearing, so the journal clearance should be the same for a Sierra. As has been discussed, I'm not sure I'd want to run 30 spline axles with a Sierra centre/gearset, but it looks equally possible

[Gwagensteve]

OK. Onto today's progress of the vitara/60 series hybrid

I cut the spindles off the cruiser housing.

Cruiser axle tubes are 6mm thick(!)



Vitara are not. They're ~3.5mm



Anyway, here's a reminder of what my axle end looks like with the spindle removed.



And here is the 60 series tube and spindle offered up to the housing.



You can see that other than for the seam welds, it would pretty much nest into the bearing pocket.

So the machining operation will be to bring the tube down to ~15mm, (there's about 17mm to the seal adapter, but I don't want any chance of it bottoming on that, and turn the OD down to 80mm as discussed. It will then weld on true.

I spent an hour or so wrestling with the hubs. I knocked the bearings out, degreased them, pulled the studs out and wire brushed them ready for machining.

These will be machined down to 165mm OD for the brake to clear, and drilled 5 on 5.5" with M12 stud holes to suit my ARP studs.

With that work done, the car will be sitting back on it's wheels and only need a calliper adapter to be complete as a roller.

A quick note on some weights.

As discussed, the landcruiser drums were 32Kg.
The landcruiser housing with the spindles cut off was 24kg. (not all that relevant, but you can see when you're designing a car for high load carrying, stuff gets heavy quick - that's 56Kg without axles or a centre, which is the heavy bit of a cruiser axle.


Onto the spindles and hubs as a comparison. It's not apples to apples, but you get the drift:

Here's a Sierra spindle/hub assembly, no drive flange, but with the calliper bracket included. 4.9Kg.



and a comparison of the beef of the cruiser hub



Here's the cruiser hub with one bearing missing.



And the spindle, which will have 30mm or so of tube pared off



8.8kg.

So we're gaining ~ 8kg or so at the moment. It probably won't end up 10 kg all up extra in the hubs, so with my new tyres and wheels on, I'll still end up ~10kg lighter across the back axle.

Obviously, the axleshafts are heavier too - comparing the short side Cruiser axle to the shortside Suzuki axle and drive flange:

Suzuki: 3.2Kg
Toyota: 4.5kg

1.2 Kg more. The long side will be a bit bigger difference as it's longer, but I reckon it will be under 2Kg heavier. No big deal.

I'll have more accurate numbers once everything is machined and ready to install. Not a deal breaker though.

[Mike harris]

That’s really cool, I think your solution will be much much stronger than what I did for sure ! I think it’s great the suzuki axle is still being pushed by you guys very cool indeed !

Good luck with the axle build up keep the pics and info coming too work ! It’s really good I think to share stuff, just to build interest in Suzuki’s and engineering that goes into building trucks !

Mike

[Gwagensteve]

Cheers Mike.

It's coming along well. I think the weight/strength ratio is looking pretty appealing considering I'm working with off-the shelf parts. If the locker build goes the way I'd like, it looks like there will be no spline cutting, all off-the-shelf parts and the only critical machining is drilling the 5 on 5.5" PCD. Fingers crossed.

[Gwagensteve]

Hubs and spindles have been dropped off for machining, should be done next week. I live in a small rural town outside of metro Melbourne, there's very little industry at all but one of the few businesses local to me is Dragway Engineering, who've made wheels since the 1970s.