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reverse shackles
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Author:  TryHard [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  reverse shackles
ok i done a search on reverse shackles

i was talkn to to guys today about it and i do think its a good idea but is reverse shackles good ...2nd how hard is it to do ..3rd what leafs should i use thanks
Author:  31zook [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
Ive never done this mod but waste of time. spend your money on lockers.
Author:  steak_knife [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
31zook wrote:
Ive never done this mod but waste of time. spend your money on lockers.


That's not 100% true, having you fixed at the front can reduce the amount of bent spring's, pushing a shackle against a rock only push's the spring backwards, to a fixed point & the spring will/can bend, move the fixed point to the front & you can push on it all day with min damage.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
Why do you think it's a good idea?

It does improves steering feel, but it hurts tyre clearance as the tyre moves back in the guard.

Ride is improved on road but off road the car doesn't climb onto obstacles as well as the car tries to drive over the axle.

PS I shackle reversed my car over 10 years ago and gave up on it. I'd never do another one. RUF and careful spring, shock and shackle choices can give equal results without the disadvantages of a shackle reverse.

Steve.
Author:  steak_knife [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
Gwagensteve wrote:
Why do you think it's a good idea?
Ride is improved on road but off road the car doesn't climb onto obstacles as well as the car tries to drive over the axle.
Steve.


I didn't say I thought it was a good idea.
Depending on what type of driving you do to, the boy's that do rally could benefit from it, the boy that do rock crawling also, but to the weekenders I wouldn't bother.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
I wrote my response before yours Steknig. Tryhard was saying he thought it was was a good idea.

I agree that for high speed use it's an advantage. That was my experience. The car rode and tracked better. some of this may have been due to added caster though over a stock sierra.

I totally disagree that it's in an advantage in rock. Any suspension design that creates a rearward axle path for the front axle when compressing will result in reduced bite from the front end as the inertia of the car drives over the top of the axle.

SR is less popular in the US than it was for that reason. Rock buggies have also been tried with forward facing control arms (Walker Evans tried it)it it was a short lived idea. It just doesn't work as well.

Steve.
Author:  appsie [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
while you do hear alot of people talk about the road handling being better i still think its alot of work for not much if any gain depending on the driving you do.

Has been a few zooks done in the past,i think Germo's comp zuk from Tuff Truck so not many people could relate their zook to it ofcourse.And moose off OL had it done too i think.I wouldnt do it just because big shackles in the centre of a zook look funky :lol:

Also as steve said you'd run into problems with tyre clearance and pushing tyre back into firewall like any old hilux.My lux is a pain for it
Author:  TryHard [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
the reason i thought it would be a good idea is my shakles hit a few rocks when i try crawl over them but if it was reverse shackles i would think it was easyer .. better approach angle
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
No, there's no improvement in approach angle - the shackle reverse bracket needs to be in exactly the same position as the shackles you are hitting on the rocks now.

Steve.
Author:  zooker [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
Gwagensteve wrote:
it hurts tyre clearance as the tyre moves back in the guard.



Not if you move the axle 6" forwards :lol:

We have three zooks in my club running shackle reverse. However... All are running 35's minimum and custom spring setups. These are offroad only cars for rockhopping so road handling is not a factor. For our style of driving it gives great approach angle (well pretty good for leaf springs), allowing you to slide up ledges. Though the large tyres and axle moved waaay forward probably helps with this, but I'm still going to say its the S/R :lol:

I can see the point Steve was making about the car trying to drive over the diff, rather than the diff be forced into the obstacle (i.e. standard shackle setup) which would give more bite. But our cars seem to do quite fine with the S/R so no reason to change 8)

I wouldnt do it on a sierra thats driven onroad though. You can get plenty of flex (and a better ride) with RUF and some longer shocks. If you keep hitting your shackles on ledges, get a front locker then drive up the ledges diagonally :wink:
Author:  joeblow [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
there may be a 'poofteenth' better improvement in ride, but to say handeling has improved is rubbish. think of what a skateboard does when you corner, now, after a SR, make those skateboard axles go parallel to each other when cornering (which is what a SR will do to your vehicle).....not a good thing to happen.
Author:  TryHard [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
ok well i havnt done anything to my suspension but what is involved in doing RUF and some longer shocks
Author:  daisy [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
TryHard wrote:
ok well i havnt done anything to my suspension but what is involved in doing RUF and some longer shocks


Search RUF on here. You'll find a LOT of tech in there on how to do it and whats involved and there are pics. there are a number of ways to do it, and they all achieve simliar results.
Author:  SuziBlu [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
daisy wrote:
TryHard wrote:
ok well i havnt done anything to my suspension but what is involved in doing RUF and some longer shocks


Search RUF on here. You'll find a LOT of tech in there on how to do it and whats involved and there are pics. there are a number of ways to do it, and they all achieve simliar results.


yes grimbo.
Author:  gravity_powered [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
joeblow wrote:
think of what a skateboard does when you corner, now, after a SR, make those skateboard axles go parallel to each other when cornering (which is what a SR will do to your vehicle).....not a good thing to happen.


:?

As far as I can work out at this time of night, you would get bugger all axle steer on a leaf spring setup compared to the way a skateboard truck works, unless you have some seriously lifted springs.

Personally I find the steering wheel far more effective than leaning into the corner anyway....
Author:  atari4x4 [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
gravity_powered wrote:
joeblow wrote:
think of what a skateboard does when you corner, now, after a SR, make those skateboard axles go parallel to each other when cornering (which is what a SR will do to your vehicle).....not a good thing to happen.


:?

As far as I can work out at this time of night, you would get bugger all axle steer on a leaf spring setup compared to the way a skateboard truck works, unless you have some seriously lifted springs.

Personally I find the steering wheel far more effective than leaning into the corner anyway....


thats gold, i think joe is talking about putting the front truck on backwards, so it pivots from the front rather than the back?

random question, do all reversed shackle set ups run a torque rod like the pooluxes or is that just because of their shit steering setup?
Author:  Highway-Star [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
atari4x4 wrote:
random question, do all reversed shackle set ups run a torque rod like the pooluxes or is that just because of their shit steering setup?



Because of their awesome factory steering arrangement :lol:


I think I have seen some early Land Rovers that are also trailing leafs on the fronts ?
Author:  gravity_powered [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reverse shackles
Highway-Star wrote:
atari4x4 wrote:
random question, do all reversed shackle set ups run a torque rod like the pooluxes or is that just because of their shit steering setup?



Because of their awesome factory steering arrangement :lol:


I think I have seen some early Land Rovers that are also trailing leafs on the fronts ?


Correct, even the last of the series 3's. The also have some serious positive camber on the front wheels :x
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