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Gbox questions
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Author:  31zook [ Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Gbox questions
I spent today rebuilding my gear box, new bearings from lowrange and all new syncro's and needle bearings to boot.
Stuck it all in, lined up the gates stuck the stick in, went for a drive, had some whine in 1st figured it would just wear in, as i would have moved the gears a touch. But then pulled off the short 80km stretch onto a street, felt like i had a massive head wind, then the gbox locked up and the car stalled out and i stopped, after this it wouldn't select any gears, i got it into second and moved about on the edge of the road, but ended up being towed home by my ol man... It has no bush in it btw as when i pulled the stick out it fell apart....

I wondered if i have tensioned the bearings to much, it heated up expanded, and seized. But in saying this, i have no idea how you could do this rebuilding a Gear box as all the bearings are press-on's...

i need help as i need my car for monday.... :(
Author:  Joe [ Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
Jonno_racing had the same sort of problem

http://auszookers.com/index.php?name=Fo ... 979#204979

I don't know what he done to sort it out :?
Author:  crazynic [ Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
31zook wrote:
... It has no bush in it btw as when i pulled the stick out it fell apart....


I wonder if it has selected 2 ratios at once because of not having the shift bush installed?

Whip it back out and see if you can select any gears on the bench and if it turns over by hand.......you should be able to turn the input by hand and select every gear easily if not something is not right.
Author:  31zook [ Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
im guessing this is a bit of a shop pro question....

i might just take it out and apart, then off to a shop so they can see things. when i held the main shaft it felt firm to spin like a motor is to turn over when there is no plugs in it. I thouhgt this might be fine, but obviously not... this kit i put through my Gbox cost a tad over $200, ill be spewin if i have to do it again :(
Author:  lump_a_charcoal [ Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
Did you get the shims in the right places? Sounds like maybe it is binding because a shaft has moved a bit..
Author:  31zook [ Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
i got the hard copy and the soft copy of the fsm and in no spot does it say that you need to shim anything, which suprises me cause tcase's are in need of that stuff...

this might explain some part of it... :?

i forgot to lube it up before putting it in, now that one end has ran dry heated up expanded, then blown up im spewin, and becasue it's twisted, it has pushed the gear that goes on it into a shim i need to lathge up a shim... i need to pull the other gear off because it's seized also, need to go buy some die's for my press....

Image
Author:  31zook [ Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
and here is the rest, no lube is the cause... :(
Image
Image
the shaft has gouge marks from the pic below, yes thats a sheared off ball bearing in there
Image
Image
was fused to this
Image

ill be going down to a engineering shop to get them to clean up the gouges and ill give it another go....
Author:  royce [ Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
no lube as in forgot to put oil back in it?
Author:  steak_knife [ Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
Oppps.. :roll: 8O
Author:  31zook [ Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
no i threw oil it it and went for a blat, i didn't run the bearings in oil before sticking it in the case, will be buying some light grease for it when i stick it all back together :D
Author:  Brett [ Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
use molly grease not light stuff. its a high load area the bearing in the box
Author:  mrw82 [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
if you put (enough) oil in the box before test driving then I can't see how that could happen so catastrophically.
and you must have used a hell of a lot of force in the press to shear that ball bearing in half, thats not from the failure, thats from removing the gear without removing the ball first (which obliously you couldn't do with it all siezed up).
I would be more inclined to think that a synchro wasn't installed properly (or something similar) and 2 gears were trying to drive at the same time creating massive loads on the bearings.
Author:  losfer [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
Those pics are awesome , i love it when amatuers try to rebuild things.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
is that were the term fuxing comes from.... tried fixing it but end up fucking it = fuxing.
Author:  royce [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
losfer wrote:
Those pics are awesome , i love it when amatuers try to rebuild things.


I love it when people who reckon they know the answer prefer to bag somebody for trying rather than offering advice
Author:  appsie [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
x2 :roll: HERO... NOW, good on ya for having a go josh.braver then what i probably am just sucks it all turned to shit for ya man.As long as you get out of it without too big a bill then its a good lesson hey.Definately made a mess :cry:
Author:  weaves [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
i remember back in the day when those bearings where new, shiney... and not melted.. :lol:...... friday seems like so long ago :lol:

That sucks dude, let me know if you need more etc, or if there is anything i can do to help.

weaves
Author:  steak_knife [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
weaves wrote:
i remember back in the day when those bearings where new, shiney... and not melted.. :lol:...... friday seems like so long ago :lol:

That sucks dude, let me know if you need more etc, or if there is anything i can do to help.

weaves


8O so it's not under warranty??? 8O
Author:  weaves [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
We only offer warranty for manufacturing faults, And in my 6 years at Bearing Dynamics, i'm yet to see a genuine warranty case on any european or japanese bearing.. only chinese mcshit.

its almost always the way it was fitted, the rest of the time its the fitter getting contaminants in the grease of a sealed bearing.

We get people trying to return bearing with hammer marks on the hardened steel, claiming its was noisy before it was hammered
Author:  Fatzook [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
appsie wrote:
x2 :roll: HERO... NOW, good on ya for having a go josh.braver then what i probably am just sucks it all turned to shit for ya man.As long as you get out of it without too big a bill then its a good lesson hey.Definately made a mess :cry:


I had a crack at doing my gearbox too. Got close, but I put one of the selecotr collars back in the wrong way and needed 00zuk to come and save my arse :oops:

Props for giving it a go Armsup
Author:  ajsr [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
ahh chinese and bearings two words that shound never be used together.
every trailer bearing or machinery bearing failure ive seen for no good reason was because of chinese bearings
Author:  jonno_racing [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
Ok... so my box is the same,i have never driven on it tho.. had issues with the gates and put a spair one in it..havent touched it since.

it does feel the same tho.

let me know how u go with lowrange.. i have another box here unused, rebuit buy a mechnic that is identical.
Author:  steak_knife [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
ajsr wrote:
ahh chinese and bearings two words that shound never be used together.
every trailer bearing or machinery bearing failure ive seen for no good reason was because of chinese bearings


Just imagine what the "Great Wall" car are like, I'd hate to have to attempt to fix those thing's.. 8O
Author:  Glavas [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
steak_knife wrote:
ajsr wrote:
ahh chinese and bearings two words that shound never be used together.
every trailer bearing or machinery bearing failure ive seen for no good reason was because of chinese bearings


Just imagine what the "Great Wall" car are like, I'd hate to have to attempt to fix those thing's.. 8O


Mitsi engine + gbox with IZUZU diffs if I recall correctly.

Shouldn't be too bad to repair :P
Author:  ajsr [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
yeah they run the old triton/express 2.4 and box
so maybe they will be ok
Author:  Joe [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
They are still as ugly as shit :?
Author:  31zook [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
the reason that the dry needle bearing didn't get any fluid was because it's in here
Image

and yes, as you might have read the washer that holds the bearing in place was fused to the gear.

Ill be seeing the local engineer this arvo and seeing if he thinks the damage is terminal....

it's funny how one mistake can ruin something i've taken for granted... :roll:
Author:  mrw82 [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
there are 'notches' in the side of the gear clusters for the oil to flow into the bearings. but I suppose as your saying no oil from the very start the damage is done by the time the oil does get there.
for the cost of an engineering shop to do any work your probably better off buying another box and have another go at it, put the new synchros and bearings in it and replace the bearings and gears (and shaft) that are damaged.

if you buy any separate ball bearings and they are a sealed unit make sure you pop the seal out and wash the grease out of them, the oil in the box lubricates them they don't need grease. and with the seal left in the oil will still get in over time and wash away the grease and there wont be enough lubrication and you will have another disaster.
Author:  lump_a_charcoal [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
31, I would scan eBay for a good second hand unit.
I bought one for a case a year or so ago, just to keep as a spare, but if you get stuck you are welcome to it.
Author:  31zook [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gbox questions
@mrw82, yep your correct, i think the damage was done by driving out my driveway and onto a highway.... if i just idled around the yard a bit i guess i wouldn't have had this issue... I will just smear the grease around the bearing then pop her in :D

Also i have a spare box outa my swb, so thats no issue lumpa, cheers anyway, i spoke to an engineering shop today and he said that because sleeves and washers and roller bearings sit on it, i just need to stick it in my lathe and emry cloth it and deber it.

the gear with bit missing out of it ill get it bored out, then sleeved. The nice man in the shop said it would cost about $80. fair enough :D
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