try this one...
= off an alfa romeo with twin spal fans
oh and i run a 10,000lb winch underneath it !!!
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| Small radiator upgrade https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14711 |
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| Author: | sleeperzook [ Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Small radiator upgrade |
I've searched and read a heap of threads and got the gist of common radiator upgrades for sierra's. I'm seeing vitara, civic, gemini, feroza...... I'm leaning towards an alloy/aluminum radiator, cos of the increase in efficiency but I have one problem. My zook is turbo and I've got bugger all room to go wider, between the intercooler piping and the power steer box. For this reason I'm leaning towards a civic radiator, as the stock radiator can struggle on really hot days (35c +) and on really dead beaches. I'm skeptical that the smaller civic rad can out perform (not just match) the stock radiator, just because it alloy. Can people give me their experiences with this? Any other suggestions would be appreciated too. For info, are the stock sierra's twin core? Just as a side note I'm not really keen on a $750 custom job. I've no doubt they'd be the best option but I just cant justify it. Cheers |
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
sleeperzook wrote: Just as a side note I'm not really keen on a $750 custom job. I've no doubt they'd be the best option but I just cant justify it. Cheers
Ha! That was going to be my suggestion. Cooling is not an area worth cutting corners on IMO. And I think you will find that any OEM radiator that is small enough to fit where you need it to fit, is going to be working hard to keep your turbo motor cool. What fan are you running with your current setup? |
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| Author: | royce [ Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
Brass copper is actually more efficient than alloy, its jsut alloy is a metric crap load cheaper and lighter start hitting the wreckers and find the biggest core that will fit the space you have would be your best option I imagine |
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| Author: | fordem [ Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
royce wrote: Brass copper is actually more efficient than alloy, its jsut alloy is a metric crap load cheaper and lighter
Not in my opinion. Of the three, copper has the best thermal conductivity, followed by aluminium, and then brass - and the difference in efficiency between the OEM aluminium cored, plastic tank radiator and a brass copper cored radiator of equivalent size is enough to be visible on the dashboard temperature gauge. I've swapped two OEM radiators on two different Suzukis for "brass copper" cored radiators with brass tanks, and on both occasions the gauge readings went up - not by enough to cause concern, but enough to be noticed. |
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| Author: | royce [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
your post jsut agreed with me and then gave half a story about an experience, if you are running at a higher temp than the thermostat regardless there are other issues |
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| Author: | BlueSuzy [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
I run the cheap civic alloy radiator. 3 core bling. I had to get the top inlet modified, as it comes out straight into the cam cover. Mine leaks now as a fan blew, and damaged the radiator.. Custom parts makes it harder to replace if you have no time. And yes it does run cooler than a stocker whatever. Alloy or copper. |
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| Author: | daisy [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
try this one... = off an alfa romeo with twin spal fans
oh and i run a 10,000lb winch underneath it !!!
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| Author: | SuziBlu [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
Water wetter. |
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| Author: | Jccck [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
I have the 92-00 Civic alloy halfsize dualcore Radiator Bought it off Ebay, shipped from the US for $70 including a 10" Thermo Fan It's a common swap to put a 00 Civic halfsize radiator into a 90-93 Honda Accord to provide MASSIVE room for a bloody big turbo mani and turbo And the Accord's radiator is full size, pretty massive.. However the Civic half-rad is rumored to outcool the Accord's by 30%! Despite being roughly half the size So like, in my Zook 1.3L 4k Corolla I have a stock 4k Thermastat, and my Zook never goes past 1/4 temp with the thermo on, EVER Not to mention i can drive on the road/beach all day long without the Thermo on, and never go past 1/3 So yes, Civic Radiator off ebay is the bomb. Just going to add, i know of a Civic Half-Rad that is used on a 92 Accord that's running 620HP at the wheels, with no cooling issues.. So yeah, 31PSI and it's still holding up strong for that guy |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
Jccck - I don't disagree with your experience with the Civic radiator at all, and I'm sure it is more efficient than the stock sierra radiator, but claiming that it can cool a 620RWHP motor is ludicrous. Hijack - Average the output of that 620rwhp motor over 5 minutes of driving and I bet the real figure that radiator is cooling is well under 200hp. Hold that motor in WOT deep on boost for any period of time and the motor can't shed enough heat to stop it melting, regardless of what radiator it's running. Many years ago Lotus claimed the maximum sustainable (i.e durable) power outputs achievable for a turbo car were 120hp/l for an iron block and 140hp/l for an alloy block. I am yet to see a factory car exceed those figures. In fact most are some way under them, even the Bugatti Veyron (and most circuit race cars) I only include this data because it's an excellent example of where performance road use and performance off road use are totally different. An example - my DD produces 280hp from 2.5 litres (112hp/l) and runs a pretty small radiator - but it's only a full boost/WOT for relatively short spikes- maybe 8-10 seconds maximum - before a period of cruise or braking/downshifting and then a repeat, and when it is at WOT/full boost it's always moving quickly - certainly over 80km/h. My off road car produces about 70hp from 660cc (106hp/l) but might sit at full boost WOT for minutes at a time, especially when cruising. I'm quite sure under the same use, my road car would overheat. The radiator both cars run is similar in size and the off road car has more fan than my road car. Cooling is not something that is comparable between a road car and an off road car. The better comparison would be trucks or stationary engines that run at peak power for prolonged periods. Cars are engineered NOT to run a peak power for long periods. Steve. |
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| Author: | TZAR [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
Jccck wrote: I have the 92-00 Civic alloy halfsize dualcore Radiator
Bought it off Ebay, shipped from the US for $70 including a 10" Thermo Fan It's a common swap to put a 00 Civic halfsize radiator into a 90-93 Honda Accord to provide MASSIVE room for a bloody big turbo mani and turbo And the Accord's radiator is full size, pretty massive.. However the Civic half-rad is rumored to outcool the Accord's by 30%! Despite being roughly half the size http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Aluminum-Radiato ... ccessories Is it this one???? |
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| Author: | sleeperzook [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
Fatzook wrote: sleeperzook wrote: Just as a side note I'm not really keen on a $750 custom job. I've no doubt they'd be the best option but I just cant justify it. Cheers Ha! That was going to be my suggestion. Cooling is not an area worth cutting corners on IMO. And I think you will find that any OEM radiator that is small enough to fit where you need it to fit, is going to be working hard to keep your turbo motor cool. What fan are you running with your current setup? At the moment its a stock radiator, with a hyundai thermo. The thermo fit's really well and flows decent but I dont actually know what the radiator is like inside. I've not had any big issues with over heating, ie i've never had to pull over or stop. I'm making a new manifold and pipes for the new hair dryer and I thought I'd look into it, before I do my cooler pipes again. The turbo does make a fair amount of under bonnet heat, so this design will incorporate heat shields, exhaust wrapping and I've already fitted flush rear facing vents to hopefully let heat escape, or create a scavenge effect at speed. When you consider I have a modified RX7 cooler (which is really efficient) mounted in front and an oil cooler to the side, I'm actually quite surprised with the job the stocko rad does. When it was tuned on a 40 degree day on the dyno, my data logging showed max coolant temps of 92 degrees and inlet temps close to ambient. A dyno cant simulate really soft sand dunes (robe), loaded with camping gear on a 35 degree day @ 10PSI boost tho  I've had it sit on 1/2 - 2/3 in those situations.
So would the $100-150 ebay jobs be an upgrade, or could I better spend it elsewhere to keep my zook from sweating? |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
sleeperzook wrote: . A dyno cant simulate really soft sand dunes (robe), loaded with camping gear on a 35 degree day @ 10PSI boost tho
I've had it sit on 1/2 - 2/3 in those situations.Why not? It's only a function of ramp rate. It's possible to work a car far harder on the dyno than you can on the road - set the ramp rate at 1km/h per minute and hold it open. That's harder than any dune at robe. Bosch have melted the back bumpers off of cars by holding them WOT on the dyno for so long. Steve. |
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| Author: | sleeperzook [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
Gwagensteve wrote: sleeperzook wrote: . A dyno cant simulate really soft sand dunes (robe), loaded with camping gear on a 35 degree day @ 10PSI boost tho I've had it sit on 1/2 - 2/3 in those situations.Why not? It's only a function of ramp rate. It's possible to work a car far harder on the dyno than you can on the road - set the ramp rate at 1km/h per minute and hold it open. That's harder than any dune at robe. Bosch have melted the back bumpers off of cars by holding them WOT on the dyno for so long. Steve. Fair call. Maybe I should've said the tuner 'didnt' simulate some real driving conditions that I've subjected my zook too It's all relative to the traction I achievable though hey?
When I picked it up after tuning I thought there was something up with my suspension, so I called to ask what they'd done. They said they had to adjust the hell outta the tire pressures cos it was spinning the rims on the rubber at high loads. |
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| Author: | sleeperzook [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
daisy wrote: try this one...
= off an alfa romeo with twin spal fansoh and i run a 10,000lb winch underneath it !!! This looks nice. I was wondering how I could fit a winch with the cooler in the way. Be a pain in the arse if it crapped out, cant image too many places holding stock of alfa gear? Got the specs, ie size and model? By the looks its a plastic tank with horizontal flow, so I'm assuming the inlet/outlets are on opposite sides, or is it twin pass? |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
Dyno time is expensive and slow ramp rates = lots of time on the dyno so it's not normally done. That's the big difference between OEM and aftermarket tuning though. A few power pulls ramped relatively quickly so as to not risk the motor is normally it. At least yours has seen a dyno - so many cars never go near one. Steve. PS a side note about aluminium radiators - I don't think I'd ever run one in the front of a car in victoria - we fill our front mounted radiators with mud regularly and aluminium radiators are quite fragile and hate being hosed - the fins will get smashed over. I run an aluminium radiator in my car but it stays high and dry behind the cab. |
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| Author: | whincup [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
are there any close to straight swaps that will make a big difference in cooling? decided today i also need to replace mine... |
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| Author: | sleeperzook [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
Gwagensteve wrote: Dyno time is expensive and slow ramp rates = lots of time on the dyno so it's not normally done. That's the big difference between OEM and aftermarket tuning though. A few power pulls ramped relatively quickly so as to not risk the motor is normally it. At least yours has seen a dyno - so many cars never go near one.
Steve. PS a side note about aluminium radiators - I don't think I'd ever run one in the front of a car in victoria - we fill our front mounted radiators with mud regularly and aluminium radiators are quite fragile and hate being hosed - the fins will get smashed over. I run an aluminium radiator in my car but it stays high and dry behind the cab. I see your point. Living in the driest state of the driest continent on earth, mud is pretty rare and I'm never one that goes near it if I can avoid it. I'm too shy about my electrics, plus its crap to clean up haha. Mostly Its the dry and sandy stuff where I go but its a consideration none the less, cheers.
So just forgetting the material, what would be your pick for a replacement? My brother has a gemini 3 core in his turbo 4AGZE corolla, which he rates, so I might measure that up for size. |
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| Author: | BlueSuzy [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
My alloy rad suz rarely sees mud as i prefer rock. Oh, and jcccks radiator is mounted on the outside of the car...! |
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| Author: | Built4thrashing [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
whincup wrote: are there any close to straight swaps that will make a big difference in cooling? decided today i also need to replace mine...
get it properly cleaned out and flushed and you will be amazed at the difference a clean rad makes. B4t |
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| Author: | Jccck [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
TZAR wrote: Jccck wrote: I have the 92-00 Civic alloy halfsize dualcore Radiator Bought it off Ebay, shipped from the US for $70 including a 10" Thermo Fan It's a common swap to put a 00 Civic halfsize radiator into a 90-93 Honda Accord to provide MASSIVE room for a bloody big turbo mani and turbo And the Accord's radiator is full size, pretty massive.. However the Civic half-rad is rumored to outcool the Accord's by 30%! Despite being roughly half the size http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Aluminum-Radiato ... ccessories Is it this one???? Thats what i have, moreorless.. And mounting radiators infront of your chassis rail is what the cool kids do. And FYI the 620 FRONT wheel HP Accord is an unregistered track car I'm pretty confident time attack and qtr mile runs don't consist of anything but flat stick. He does have a Mishimoto version of this radiator, it's a $350 brand name version with MISHIMOTO painted on the front, but i can't see it be much more efficient (10% at best) than an eBay one. |
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| Author: | BlueSuzy [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
To mount the civic one it in the original position, the top inlet has to be modded.. |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
yeah but where's the fun in that... 
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| Author: | BlueSuzy [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
sick bro. |
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| Author: | JrZook [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
whincup wrote: are there any close to straight swaps that will make a big difference in cooling? decided today i also need to replace mine...
Stock standard brand new plus a clean and working cooling system should be more than enough. If for some reason its not add the vitara viscous fan with the sierra shroud. Dan |
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| Author: | Jccck [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
Atari i lol'd the first time, but my car looks nothing like that anymore haha Check the thread =) |
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| Author: | lordfury007 [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
I just found out my radiator is leaking, looks to be one of the cores leaking onto the fins. I got a quote from two companies and they charge $160-$200 to seal the core and refill a radiator. Now using the search function, it tells me i can buy a brand new civic radiator for the same price, and it works better? Can someone confirm this tiny 37cm x 42cm civic radiator will effectively cool a naturally aspirated G16B EFI? If so, i'll start making a mounting bracket while i wait for it to arrive. |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
Jccck wrote: Atari i lol'd the first time, but my car looks nothing like that anymore haha
Check the thread =) you might have changed the pics in your build up but the original creation will forever be an abortion & shall be remembered. 
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| Author: | BlueSuzy [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
lordfury007 wrote: I just found out my radiator is leaking, looks to be one of the cores leaking onto the fins. I got a quote from two companies and they charge $160-$200 to seal the core and refill a radiator. Now using the search function, it tells me i can buy a brand new civic radiator for the same price, and it works better? Can someone confirm this tiny 37cm x 42cm civic radiator will effectively cool a naturally aspirated G16B EFI? If so, i'll start making a mounting bracket while i wait for it to arrive. It more than capable of cooling a G16B BlueSuzy wrote: To mount the civic one it in the original position, the top inlet has to be modded..
Did you read this..................? I have said it like twice in this thread already. |
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| Author: | lordfury007 [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Small radiator upgrade |
BlueSuzy wrote: BlueSuzy wrote: To mount the civic one it in the original position, the top inlet has to be modded.. Did you read this..................? I have said it like twice in this thread already. Yeah, a quick trip to fingers aluminium down the road will modify inlet and weld on some new ally pipe bent 90 degrees in about 10 minutes for $50 |
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