[birko]

Well went for a wheel on friday to test out my new baleno conversion. All was going well till i tried to climb a dune in High first then a horrid grinding noise followed. Got towed home about 30kms and just before my place had to go through a booze bus being towed .

This is the resulting damage. Bye bye 6.5's

[joeblow]

nooooo



tell me that doesn't happen gwagon........

[Jazzor]

:S, wow not good.

Thats a pretty sweet tcase bracket too.

[Fatzook]

Jazzor wrote:

:S, wow not good.

Thats a pretty sweet tcase bracket too.

Not sweet enough obviously

Who made the bucket? Its not unusual for the gears to shed teeth, but for the case to crack like that when mounted to a cradle?? Not so common

[hooki]

shit thats fubar. Thats one of the ZOR snatch cradles yeah? I thought they would be pretty good considering they incorporate the rocktoy ring design into the cradle.

[shep]

are they tg 6.5's, if so lucky it has a lifetime warranty.

[jdk81]

That sucks!
4h 1st?
Was the dune compacted enough to cause wind up?
Or did you drop the clutch?

Hmm stress concentration with no design failure mode.

[mnemonix]

shep wrote:

are they tg 6.5's, if so lucky it has a lifetime warranty.

Never knew of this one?
I killed a set of 6.5's a few months ago (intermediate shaft bearing failure).

Grabbed a new case and rebuilt it with 6.5's again. I can't drive for shit offroad with big tyres and factory gearing.

What clauses are associated with the lifetime warranty?

[Fatzook]

mnemonix wrote:

shep wrote:

are they tg 6.5's, if so lucky it has a lifetime warranty.

Never knew of this one?
I killed a set of 6.5's a few months ago (intermediate shaft bearing failure).

Grabbed a new case and rebuilt it with 6.5's again. I can't drive for shit offroad with big tyres and factory gearing.

What clauses are associated with the lifetime warranty?

I'd assume that it must be a gear hardening failure, or material failure.

I doubt that damage that is the result of bearing failure is covered.

[mnemonix]

Agreed.
Was just curious as I wouldn't have thought replacement due to the case failure above would be warranted either.

[Fatzook]

mnemonix wrote:

Agreed.
Was just curious as I wouldn't have thought replacement due to the case failure above would be warranted either.

Possibly not, but It would be alot harder to determine that the gears failed as a result of the case flexing/ breaking; rather than a bearing failure.

A failed bearing will leave marks on the gear surface that it makes contact with. A broken case will most likely munch teeth first

[brendan]

Fatzook wrote:

mnemonix wrote:

Agreed.
Was just curious as I wouldn't have thought replacement due to the case failure above would be warranted either.

Possibly not, but It would be alot harder to determine that the gears failed as a result of the case flexing/ breaking; rather than a bearing failure.

A failed bearing will leave marks on the gear surface that it makes contact with. A broken case will most likely munch teeth first

just what i was going to say. the gears would been damaged as a result of the case flexing/breaking.

[shep]

there warranty is advertised as no questions asked lifetime warranty.

http://www.trail-gear.com/samurai-transfer-case-gears

i do believe however that ya only get the warranty on the first set.

[chris_mac]

my case broke in similar way, i had no rock toy ring that time, i had my gears replaced, but had to pay shipping costs, it took over a month to go through all the warranty process though

[crazynic]

What diff ratios and tire size are you running?

[birko]

ok, it is a low range cradle. Basically a ZOR snatch. Has been sweet for about a year. Went for a drive friday night all excited with my just completed 1.6 baleno coilpack motor, extractors, snorkel, 31's, twin locked. Tyres where at 9psi.

Had a bit of fun at the first sand bowl, was really impressed with the new power. Night continued climbing in to the second sand bowl, which the entrance is a soft as dune climb with a bit of axle tramp bumps and it wenth half way up. Wasnt really doing anything stupid, was about 6000rpm 1st high. The gears are busted from the shaft movement and thus munching the gears.

Got in contact with low range. This is the first broken case like this he has seen and in that spot. Looks like gears are covered , just have to send in busted gears set.

So my dilema is do i keep this mount or make up my own, strengthening the standard mounts and incorporating a roc ring, still using factory rubber mounts for mor give?

Or i could use factory rubber mounts under this cradle (also giving a 1' lift)

[BenT]

I don't think the case failed first. It looks to me like the gears failed and the broken bits of teeth jammed between the gears causing enough force to split the case open.

If you look at the part of the case that broke off, there is almost no load applied to it by the mounts.

No amount of reinforcement or strengthend mounts is going to stop the gears splitting the case open when they run over bits of themselves, so I wouldn't blame the snatch mount.

Ben

[joeblow]

BenT wrote:

I don't think the case failed first. It looks to me like the gears failed and the broken bits of teeth jammed between the gears causing enough force to split the case open.

If you look at the part of the case that broke off, there is almost no load applied to it by the mounts.

No amount of reinforcement or strengthend mounts is going to stop the gears splitting the case open when they run over bits of themselves, so I wouldn't blame the snatch mount.

Ben

what he said.

[birko]

ok, so stick with this mount then? What about my idea of running the factory rubbers under it for a bit more 'give'

[joeblow]

give won't really stop gears from fracturing.

[jdk81]

birko wrote:

Had a bit of fun at the first sand bowl, was really impressed with the new power. Night continued climbing in to the second sand bowl, which the entrance is a soft as dune climb with a bit of axle tramp bumps and it wenth half way up. Wasnt really doing anything stupid, was about 6000rpm 1st high. The gears are busted from the shaft movement and thus munching the gears.

Axle tramp as in a bouncing effect in the suspension causing spin, grip, spin, grip etc?
And 6000 rpm is where the baleno makes max power.
1st gear at 40km/hr (edit: done using gear calc based on his 31s)

I will go against joe and bent, however I am open for discussion

Correct me if if I am wrong, but in high range that gear interface of the transfer case generates the highest torque. The ratio there is approx 2.4:1
(116Nm x3.652 x 2.4 which is close to 1000 Nm), it is the next gear interface which brings high range to about 1.7 overall.
And also the input shaft spins clockwise in the indicated pic.

Spinning clockwise, if a material wedged between the gears I would expect the case to experience more damage and seperation on the lower side of the box, instead of the upper.
I would expect this to be an over torque applied, where the input shaft has continued to rotate and due to the high load has rotated the case and opened it up.

Any chance of a pic of the gears out of the case?

It is possible that this breakage location is not very common, due to those gear meshings not normally experiencing shock loading under those power conditions. The other meshing (low range) which reduces the box dramatically would normally break teeth or fracture the case.

If the gears were to fracture and spit a tooth, I would expect it be more likely to have happened in the past year on the low range gear interface, where much higher torque is generated.

Any ideas?
Besides avoiding flogging you car in first gear?

P.S. We should call buzooka baby_face_gillard

[MART]

One of my cases developed a crack similiar to yours , but didn't actually break , I'd say your case has flexed and the case has broken damaging the gear , your mount doesn't give solid support , it can still flex in the middle , allowing the case to seperate , Cheers Paul.

[birko]

Quote:

One of my cases developed a crack similiar to yours , but didn't actually break , I'd say your case has flexed and the case has broken damaging the gear , your mount doesn't give solid support , it can still flex in the middle , allowing the case to seperate , Cheers Paul.

Thats what i was thinking. So im thinking a full roc ring will be better? Its looks like it flex away with them 3 bolts on the mount.

[birko]

This looks very similar

Quote:

well i had a chance to pull down the transfer case tonight and inspect what was salvageable.


I've smashed the input gear, the custom made intermediate gear and the casing

but luckly the output shaft and both hi and low output gears survived

so just need to find a late 1L donor transfer case to make another one.

Anybody got one of these laying around that's going really cheap ??

[birko]

That is 'oozuk' s one
http://auszookers.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6124&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150

[joeblow]

the main problem is you have all that torque going through the t/case......yet the tailshafts and diffs are still having a hard time turning the wheels as they did before transfer gears, its just that everything forward of the t/case is having it easier. diff gears would help solve alot of the drama there.

[jdk81]

joeblow wrote:

the main problem is you have all that torque going through the t/case......yet the tailshafts and diffs are still having a hard time turning the wheels as they did before transfer gears, its just that everything forward of the t/case is having it easier. diff gears would help solve alot of the drama there.

+1
4.57 diff gears would be my preference, coupled with a 4.16 xfer case
Low 1st is same ratio as 6.5 low 2nd (cant recall using low first).

Pros
reduced stress on drive shafts, transfer case etc
improves speedo accuracy (ideal with 32' and very close with 7.5R16 or 235/85R16)
less likely to need fancy transfer case supports


cons
cost
combined high range reduction of 12% with 32s.
have to use 31-32 all the time
still not idiot proof

[birko]

Quote:

the main problem is you have all that torque going through the t/case......yet the tailshafts and diffs are still having a hard time turning the wheels as they did before transfer gears, its just that everything forward of the t/case is having it easier. diff gears would help solve alot of the drama there.

ok, yep but ill be getting 6.5's as that what will be with the warranty. Think ill just suck it and see. If they bust again, then maybe diff gears and a different trans gears

[oozuk]

jdk81 wrote:

joeblow wrote:

the main problem is you have all that torque going through the t/case......yet the tailshafts and diffs are still having a hard time turning the wheels as they did before transfer gears, its just that everything forward of the t/case is having it easier. diff gears would help solve alot of the drama there.

+1
4.57 diff gears would be my preference, coupled with a 4.16 xfer case
Low 1st is same ratio as 6.5 low 2nd (cant recall using low first).

Pros
reduced stress on drive shafts, transfer case etc
improves speedo accuracy (ideal with 32' and very close with 7.5R16 or 235/85R16)
less likely to need fancy transfer case supports


cons
cost
combined high range reduction of 12% with 32s.
have to use 31-32 all the time
still not idiot proof

FYI

i had spread my reduction between the diff gears and transfer and still managed to split my case, I was running 4.1 transfer gears and 4.6 vitara diff gears with 33's. So i recommend bracing the transfer where you can !!

[jdk81]

oozuk wrote:

FYI

i had spread my reduction between the diff gears and transfer and still managed to split my case, I was running 4.1 transfer gears and 4.6 vitara diff gears with 33's. So i recommend bracing the transfer where you can !!

What were you doing at the time?