[Sack]

Has anyone put a 4A-FE 1.6L Corolla engine into a Suzuki? What's involved in the conversion (if it's possible)? I can get my hands on the rolla engine pretty cheap. Have the whole car too, so have the wiring loom etc. It'll be going into a carby 94 Vitara JX.

[Fluffy]

its always possible.. anythings possible with the right planing/money/know how

[Fatzook]

Sack wrote:

Has anyone put a 4A-FE 1.6L Corolla engine into a Suzuki? What's involved in the conversion (if it's possible)? I can get my hands on the rolla engine pretty cheap. Have the whole car too, so have the wiring loom etc. It'll be going into a carby 94 Vitara JX.

I can't think of a more pointless conversion!!

For all the fucking around that would be involved getting that lump of shit 4a motor in, it would be FAR easier to just sell your car and buy an EFI model vitara. Or if you are really attached to it, put an efi vitara motor in.

Pete

[Sack]

Even if the vitara Cost me $500 and the engine is free? It'll cost me a lot more than that for an injected vitara.

[atari4x4]

just cause you can get it pretty cheap doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[eldo]

Sack it has too many things to overcome, just keep your eye out for a wrecked efi vitara or a cheap complete vehicle. how will you set up the transfer, engine mounts, wiring, engineering etc etc. all that alone will cost you a small fortune, definately more than 500 bucks worth of fucking around, especially when you can buy yourself a bolt in option that requires no major mods and does not require engineering.
good luck

[Sack]

Cool, that's what I wanted to hear. Wasn't sure on the mounts etc. So now I know it's not easy, I'll move on. Cheers fellas.

[2stroker]

I don't know why anyone would bag an engine that is known world wide for its reliability, Toyota 4A series engines have great reliability and good power (more than a Vitara 1600), Toyota ran the 4A FE's for 10 or 11 years because they were a good thing. Most mechanics will tell you they are good to work on and are super reliable.

I do agree that it is a waste of time trying to fit one to a Vitara, no one makes an adapter for engine to gearbox because the Suzuki bellhousing is just too different to the Toyota one. Because the Vitara has an intergrated gearbox/transfer it is not possible to use the Toyota gearbox as is done when 4A series engines are fitted to a Sierra's.

[whincup]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd4eIYWQOQ4

surely if someone can do this, then the 4a-fe can be done. its the same series of engine, just the 4agze is a newer one with forced induction... i say go for it peaceout

[Ben_Sierra]

The thing is this:

G16s are not hard to come by. And they are as close to a straight bolt up conversion as you are going to get. There is no real advantage to spending a lot of time and a lot of pissing about to get a 4A-FE into a Sierra.

A 4A-GZE offers something that no G series motor offers: off the shelf forced induction. That makes that conversion somewhat worthwhile. The 4A-FE, whilst not a bad motor by itself, is a poor choice for a Sierra compared to a G16B which is a comparable motor which will be far easier to install.

[2stroker]

Ben_Sierra and whincup

Both of you have missed a critical issue, he has a Vitara, not a Sierra that is why this is not viable.

whincup - the 4AGZE was used from 1986 - 1995 and the 4A-FE from 1987 - 1998

Ben_sierra you are right you just wouldn't waste your time with a 4A-FE into a suzuki

Anyone that has actually owned any car that has a 4AGE, 4AGZE or 20 valve can tell you how well these engine's perform, anyone who hasn't is just talking. It's a bit like people who bag Suzukis as being small pretend 4x4's that are not capable of doing what full size 4x4's can do, they have no idea.

Having said all that, would I put one in my LJ - probably not.

[Ben_Sierra]

Fair call, I missed the Vitara bit... But the same still applies

[whincup]

yea i too missed the vitara bit... and knowing those engines are around the same era then it should be easier correct? and sierra, vitara... other than the fact sierras have tranny/t-case being separated, how different could it be? people put chev and holden v8s in cruisers without too much difficulty (relatively speaking of course, by no means would it be easy)

[royce]

A guy once put a 4age into a vit with a homemade adaptor plate so I guess it can be done, though for the effort I think there would be better options to look at

4afe come in many different guises too, some can be the base for some pretty serious engines, some are pretty ordinary and crap

[steak_knife]

2stroker wrote:

Anyone that has actually owned any car that has a 4AGE, 4AGZE or 20 valve can tell you how well these engine's perform, anyone who hasn't is just talking. It's a bit like people who bag Suzukis as being small pretend 4x4's that are not capable of doing what full size 4x4's can do, they have no idea.

I have !!!!!

[2stroker]

whincup mate it is totally different, I will try to explain it, sorry if this is very basic but until you actually attempt some conversions you won't understand what is involved. This is why the vit is so much harder than a sierra and why you would just use an EFI 16 valve vit as an upgrade.

With a sierra you have an engine bolted to a gearbox then you have a jackshaft which is a small drive shaft, it goes in the back of the gearbox and joins it to a completely seperate transfer box (the transfer box is the thing that allows you to select 4x4)

When you fit a different engine to a sierra, lets say in this case a 4AGE, you use the toyota T50 gearbox as well, so apart from making engine mounts and moving the tranfer back a bit the only other thing is having the jackshaft modified so that it is shorter and has a toyota spline at the gearbox end, and changing the length of drive shafts to suit the new transfer position.

With a vitara you have an engine that is bolted to a gearbox and that gearbox has an intergrated transfer box (i.e. it is all one piece)

With a Vitara you are stuck with the gearbox because it is one piece with the transfer box so a custom adapter plate of some kind would need to be made to make the toyota engine bolt up to the vitara box. A Vitara gearbox will not fit over a 4AGE flywheel and the input spline is different so a custom clutch and modified flywheel would have to be made. The starter motor is a problem as well because it is in a different position and the block interferes with its positioning on the bellhousing, a custom starter will fix this problem or you can have the alloy bell housing cut and a piece off a toyota belhousing welded in. Yes it is possible but just not viable.

With either a sierra or a vit you would also have to change the fuel delivery system to suit EFI and wire the thing up which in itself takes some work to do properly.

You can't compare this to a landcruiser or patrol conversion because unlike suzuki's the bell housing on those vehicles can be removed from the gearbox and numerous manufacturers offer a replacement bellhousing to suit whatever engine you want to run.

[whincup]

ahh ok, thanks for explaining that... i had assumed that people were saying its not possible only because of the fact that the transmission and transfer are joined, thats why i pointed out the landcruiser and patrol conversions...

[2stroker]

Yeah, as you can see there are many variables, this is why the most common upgrade is a 1600 vitara engine into a sierra and a 16valve efi into a carbied vitara.

In a sierra you can bolt a 1600 to the sierra gearbox via a readily available adapter kit, or you can do a mod to your sierra box so that it will bolt to the 1600. The problem with this is that you are stuck with the smaller 1300 flywheel and clutch because the larger 1600 flywheel and clutch wont fit into the sierra bellhousing. This is why some of our southern friends like Joeblow use the stronger and larger vitara gearboxes and modify them to fit into a sierra.

In the old days when we were fitting "K" series toyota and "A" series nissan engines to LJ's it was because they were the current engines of the day, 1300 sierra or 1600 vit engines were not around till later down the track otherwise we would have used them.

[sbyard]

SO is the general consensus that a 4AFE engine a pointless conversion, even if its cheap? I've got a 89 WT Sierra, and can pick up the entire corolla for less than $500.

[steak_knife]

sbyard wrote:

SO is the general consensus that a 4AFE engine a pointless conversion, even if its cheap? I've got a 89 WT Sierra, and can pick up the entire corolla for less than $500.

Rwd???????????????

Have a read of 2strokers post's, it's not an easy conversion.

http://auszookers.com/index.php?name=Fo ... sc&start=0

Ridge is part way through, have a look at his build to..

[sbyard]

Yeah looks like a bit more work than I can handle at the moment. Might just look at doing the EFI vit motor. How long do you reckon that conversion takes?

[Ridge]

sbyard wrote:

Yeah looks like a bit more work than I can handle at the moment. Might just look at doing the EFI vit motor. How long do you reckon that conversion takes?

How much time do you have to work on it?
Can you do the work yourself?
Do you like wiring?

[sbyard]

I can dedicate most weekends too it. I can attempt the work myself. I've never had anything to do with wiring, so I guess I like it yes haha

[cossie]

2stroker: great info re the toy 4age, but i think you may of not covered all the different specs, which in turn make a vit>4age swap a little easier.

there are a couple of different sized 4age flywheels. the 4agze 260mm flywheel wont fit but 4age flywheels are 200 or 212mm. The vit flywheel is either 200mm or 215mm therefore a 4age flywheel should fit inside a vit bellhousing.

use a 4age clutch plate and a matching sized vit clutch cover.

re position of starter motor: AE92/AE101 GZE and 20v starter is on the inlet side, smallport 4age is on the exhaust side.

A fuel tank from an efi swb vit is a nice addition but you can get away with a lift pump and surge tank. i personally like the tank swap as its much a cleaner (and legal) install. An uprated fuel pump such as a walbro or bosch is good insurance.

I just started a vit>4agze swap and we'll see what other issues come up...

[steak_knife]

cossie wrote:

I just started a vit>4agze swap and we'll see what other issues come up...

I smell a build thread!!!

I would love to see what your going to do with the bell housing, but then I want to see everything.

Are you doing all the work your self???

[Gwagensteve]

[quote="steknig"]

I would love to see what your going to do with the bell housing, but then I want to see everything. [\quote]

Xheaps. If anyone can resolve a 4agze. to aw-4 adapter I'd get quite excited.

[cossie]

the swap is being done by a guy in south west sydney. he is renown for engine swaps and hot rod fabrication. He did a 4agze>Sierra swap a few years ago.

We've only got the engine out at this moment, but I'll get some pics up nest time I visit.

I know a guy in QLD was making adaptors for vit>4age but Ive tried contacting him numerous times to no avail and I hear that he lost the pattern. My guy is therefore making one from scratch, so if anyone is looking to for one and make it a little less expensive, contact me.

[Brett]

why not a 4ag to lux box and transfer? im pretty sure they are a bolt up or you can get a bell housing that is a bolt up.

then you could do twin transfer cases or gears pretty easy.

[92vit]

4agze is easy 4a-fe is i little more fab work. It would be easier to use 16v injected engine. But easy is for the feint hearted isn't this a 4x4 forum. Things are easier with sierra to do engine swaps purely because of the seperate t\case's. But its still pretty fuckin easy with the vit. The reason the 4a-fe is harder to fit is because of the plenum and throttle body they will face the fire wall and almost be imposible to plumb. I have heard of people who have the plenum cut down and reversed it but that's kind of bodgey due to toyota engines being very tempremental in regards to air flow but that is easily fixed as most engine swaps usually involve an aftermarket ecu. Or track down a plenum of a sprinter Eg: ae86. I'm currently getting the parts together for the 4agze swap and i think its a very viable option maybe not so much an using the 4a-fe the reason i say this is the 4agze has more power\horsepower and torque hands down than all the factory options that suzuki have to offer including the grand vitara v6. If you have a good look at the two engines you will start to see simularity's. Anyways this isn't rocket science its a fourby even rocket science isn't as hard as some people are making out this swap to be In the words of chopper (harden the fuck up)

[Ben_Sierra]

92vit wrote:

4agze is easy 4a-fe is i little more fab work. It would be easier to use 16v injected engine. But easy is for the feint hearted isn't this a 4x4 forum. Things are easier with sierra to do engine swaps purely because of the seperate t\case's. But its still pretty fuckin easy with the vit. The reason the 4a-fe is harder to fit is because of the plenum and throttle body they will face the fire wall and almost be imposible to plumb. I have heard of people who have the plenum cut down and reversed it but that's kind of bodgey due to toyota engines being very tempremental in regards to air flow but that is easily fixed as most engine swaps usually involve an aftermarket ecu. Or track down a plenum of a sprinter Eg: ae86. I'm currently getting the parts together for the 4agze swap and i think its a very viable option maybe not so much an using the 4a-fe the reason i say this is the 4agze has more power\horsepower and torque hands down than all the factory options that suzuki have to offer including the grand vitara v6. If you have a good look at the two engines you will start to see simularity's. Anyways this isn't rocket science its a fourby even rocket science isn't as hard as some people are making out this swap to be In the words of chopper (harden the fuck up)

Well I managed to decypher that rambling mess (you should try paragraphs maybe...)

Anyway, the point isn't that a 4afe is impossible to fit, but the fact of the matter is that a 4afe really gives you no advantage over a G16B, which is a far, far easier engine swap... Why would you possibly make more work for yourself for absolutely no gain?