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Upgrading wiring to the starter???
https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16059		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  TheOtherLeft [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Upgrading wiring to the starter???
I've heard of people upgrading the wiring to their starters using relays etc... similar to headlight wiring loom upgrades. Is this really necessary? I understand that starters use a helluva lot of juice to get kick the engine over but is the factory loom adequate?

I see Shep's done it already Shep's starter fix

I've already upgraded my headlight loom using my own kit so can easily upgrade the starter loom but wonder if it's really worth it???

I have a GV and already had my starter reconditioned as the throwout clutch was shagged. I have a new marine battery but it takes a second or so to start the car, ie it's not instant.
Author:  fordem [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Upgrading wiring to the starter???
There are two sides to the starter wiring - power side & the control side.

The power side would be the two heavy cables connected directly to the battery lugs, one goes to the starter solenoid, and the other will typically go to a bolt on the bellhousing or transmission, possibly one of the bolts holding the starter. The factory power wiring is generally adequate for the job, provided, people remember to reconnect the negative side after working on the transmission and/or engine.

The control side would be where the "clicky starter fix" does it's magic. That goes from the battery positive through a couple of fuses, to the ignition switch, and depending on local law and manual/automatic transmission, may (or may not) pass through a clutch safety switch (manual transmission) or a park/neutral safety switch(automatic transmission) and then to the starter solenoid.

In my experience the factory control wiring is also adequate for the task (I don't own a Samurai or Sierra, but I do own a 1.3 Swift, which is essentially the same engine & starter, and also a Grand Vitara) - I've had experienced symptoms, on the Swift, that could be described as taking a second or so to start the car (you turn the key and there is a momentary delay before it cranks), and I have tracked this to worn contacts in the ignition switch.

What the clicky starter fix does is use the ignition switch to control a relay (reducing the current flowing through the switch), which then controls the starter solenoid. The starter solenoid is a two function device, one function being a relay that switches the few hundred amps required to crank the engine, and the other being to pull the starter bedix into mesh with the flywheel - so you're in effect, adding a relay to control an existing relay - personally, I don't see the point.

A wiring upgrade may or may not fix your problem, depending on what the problem really is - it's it's worn contacts in the ignition switch, then don't expect any improvement.
Author:  MacDaddy [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Upgrading wiring to the starter???
TheOtherLeft wrote:
I've heard of people upgrading the wiring to their starters using relays etc... similar to headlight wiring loom upgrades. Is this really necessary? I understand that starters use a helluva lot of juice to get kick the engine over but is the factory loom adequate?

I see Shep's done it already Shep's starter fix

I've already upgraded my headlight loom using my own kit so can easily upgrade the starter loom but wonder if it's really worth it???

I have a GV and already had my starter reconditioned as the throwout clutch was shagged. I have a new marine battery but it takes a second or so to start the car, ie it's not instant.


I own a GV too, and the starter wiring looks very adequate to me, unless there is a problem, i would leave it as is... i have a new 500CCA Supercharge Battery, mine also takes 1 sec to start, i think it is normal, to me, 1 sec is a very quick start... would be interested to know/see how you upgraded your wiring loom though ! :wink:
Author:  Moph [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Upgrading wiring to the starter???
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. A second or two to start isn't unusual - needs to pump fresh fuel into the cylinders and atomise it sufficiently to get it to burn well.

The starter has two feeds. One is the +12V feed from the battery; the other is the switch wire from the loom. Shep's upgrade fixes the switch wire from the loom if you're not getting enough current through it to pull in the starter solenoid. If your solenoid isn't clicking and the starter's kicking over then fitting a relay will do bugger all.

If anything, look at upgrading what is known in the audio world as the 'big three'. The 'big three' is the earthing capacity between (1) the battery and alternator, (2) the battery to the chassis and (3) the ground strap from the engine/tranny to the chassis. Many electrical faults are caused by bad earths and they're far more difficult to diagnose than inadequate supply wiring.

My Sierra has a 100A earth strap from the alternator bracket (engine) to the chassis; 0 gauge cable between the alternator and the battery; 0 gauge cable between the starter motor and the battery; and a light'ish gauge cable between the chassis and body (screwed in place with steel washer onto bare metal). I get very low resistance between battery to chassis so figure that the battery --> engine via 0 gauge --> body via 100A earth strap is sufficient that I don't need a 0 gauge cable direct. You shouldn't really be earthing through the body so not so critical to have large gauge cable there.

Net effect is that I can be confident that all my engine, chassis and body earths are good with very low resistance ... less problem solving to do if I do have electrical issues! I can happily run an Engel fridge and 480W of lights through chassis earths with no problems.
Author:  TheOtherLeft [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Upgrading wiring to the starter???
Thanks for the starter motor tech fellas.

Food for thought.
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