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More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
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Author:  JrZook [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
Hi all,

Just picked u a 2nd handy falcon alt. It was pretty much a bolt in affair on the g16b in my sierra using a 1.3 alternator lower bracket.

Questions:

Connections:

Which terminal is the sense and which is the charge light? I believe the sense is the terminal closest to the battery stud terminal, would like to confirm. I either get a charge light that is either always on or always off switching these terminals around :? . Regulator problem?

Output:

Im currently getting anything between 14.4 and 15V at the battery with no acessories on. Is this to be expected? Seems a tad high to me.

Dan
Author:  Rhino [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
14.4 is pretty close to what you want.
I run the sence wire directly from the battery via a relay.
The standard wiring has a pretty big voltage drop across it and will cause your alt to charge hight and in turn cook your battery
Author:  31zook [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
i was unsure also, so i just crimped connector plugs on and was lucky enough to put them on the right way the first time....
Author:  royce [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
get it tested, sounds like a buggered reg
Author:  jonno_racing [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
mine charges at that.. and works perfect... dead flat batt (as in roll start job) 2 min at idel and it will start ofthe key! (JUST)

royce i think they charge around 19volts if the reg is nackerd!
Author:  want33s [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
My first one shit the reg and I found out they are 'self exciting' and will charge 15.5V max.

There are 3 steps to get the best out of these alts.
1 Fit alt (obviously :roll: )
2 Upgrade power cable between alt and battery. (130+Amp cable)
3 Fit a relay triggered by ignition and supply battery voltage to sense terminal on alt to avoid voltage drop in crappy Suzuki wiring loom.
Author:  JrZook [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
want33s wrote:
My first one shit the reg and I found out they are 'self exciting' and will charge 15.5V max.

There are 3 steps to get the best out of these alts.
1 Fit alt (obviously :roll: )
2 Upgrade power cable between alt and battery. (130+Amp cable)
3 Fit a relay triggered by ignition and supply battery voltage to sense terminal on alt to avoid voltage drop in crappy Suzuki wiring loom.


Yea your correct about the self exciting part. I believe she also drained my battery overnight. BASTARD!! Wonder where i can get a new reg at a descent price around brizzy.

Jas do you have a picture or can you tell me how yours is wired up regarding the sense and charge light connections?

Cheers Dan
Author:  nissvit [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
to check the theory of alt draining the battery, did you put yr hand on the alternator to check if it was warm??
if you have a continous supply on the one that should be running to the charge light, it will continously put current through the field windings which will result in a flat battery and a warm alternator...

this is not really indicative of a problem with the reg or alt, just the wiring...
Author:  Moph [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
want33s wrote:
3 Fit a relay triggered by ignition and supply battery voltage to sense terminal on alt to avoid voltage drop in crappy Suzuki wiring loom.


Yep - need to do this. Which is why I haven't done it yet :roll:

Mine has always charged at 14.4-15.4V off the stock loom sense wire. Have had 3 EL alternators now (second hand one that shagged out; 2 new ones both of which run fine ... long story) that all charge in that range. Autolekky mate said don't worry too much with calcium batteries as they don't mind the higher charge voltage, and mine doesn't see daily driver duties anyway. Following want33's Step 3 should drop the charge voltage back to 14.4V max though.
Author:  JrZook [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
nissvit wrote:
to check the theory of alt draining the battery, did you put yr hand on the alternator to check if it was warm??
if you have a continous supply on the one that should be running to the charge light, it will continously put current through the field windings which will result in a flat battery and a warm alternator...

this is not really indicative of a problem with the reg or alt, just the wiring...


Yea mate have checked the alternator she ain't warm. The reference to a possible buggered regulator was due to the fact that either which wya the charge light and sense wires are connected to the alternator I either get the charge light on all the time or off all the time and the seemingly high charge voltage at the battery also either which way these are connected >14.8V.

MOPH, WANT33's, 31ZOOK do you mind telling us how your alts are connected as you guys seem to have working alts and charge lights so i can eliminate wiring problems. I cant find any info anywhere which simply states which pin goes where.

Cheers guys
Author:  nissvit [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
try this one as a reference,
it is specifically for USA mitsubishi cars that use mitsubishi alternators, but the 63 amp alt referenced in this is pretty similiar to the one used in the falcons, inlcuding the same pinouts.
Author:  royce [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
mine used to have the light on more than off (apprently its common in them) and I jsut let it go till one day it blew both lightforce bulbs and a while later both headlights :) was a tad annoying
Author:  Moph [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
Will check for you tonight mate ... I can remember how absolutely frustrating it was when I was having alt probs and couldn't find a definitive answer on which pin was exciter / sense.
Author:  JrZook [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
nissvit wrote:
try this one as a reference,
it is specifically for USA mitsubishi cars that use mitsubishi alternators, but the 63 amp alt referenced in this is pretty similiar to the one used in the falcons, inlcuding the same pinouts.


Cheers nissvit, it does have the same pinouts however the falcon alts have the pins exiting from teh side of the alternator
Author:  JrZook [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
Moph wrote:
Will check for you tonight mate ... I can remember how absolutely frustrating it was when I was having alt probs and couldn't find a definitive answer on which pin was exciter / sense.


That would help a heap mate!! Very fustrating atm not being able to find a definate simple answer
Author:  want33s [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
Just checked mine....
Looking at the plug on the alt when it is mounted....
Vertical pin(lower) is sense wire

Horizontal pin (upper) is light wire.

I did it by trial and error and got it wrong to start with but it didn't do any harm.
Author:  Moph [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
Taken looking down from above driver's side headlight:

Image
Author:  31zook [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
i think mine put's out like 18V what will that do? ill chuck a multi on it tomorrow, but will the battery explode or something cool?
Author:  steak_knife [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
31zook wrote:
i think mine put's out like 18V what will that do? ill chuck a multi on it tomorrow, but will the battery explode or something cool?


have you ever seen that happen?? 8O

Saw a 200b bonnet ripped off it's hinge's & acid sprayed everywhere... :lol:
Author:  Ben_Sierra [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
Batteries make some BIG bangs...

We had a T/A on site once, putting straps on a dozen big fucking 2Volt cells to get us a nice big 24 volt battery supply.... Only he put one too many straps on. BOOM!
Author:  31zook [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
yeah but that was because you were tripping and had a mouth full of acid... ;)

your the hulk remember? :lol:
Author:  31zook [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
anyone have an answer?
Author:  steak_knife [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
31zook wrote:
anyone have an answer?


It'll cook ya battery & if it's efi fry the ECU

Apart from that should be fine.. :roll:
Author:  31zook [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
oh, i should fix it then....
Author:  steak_knife [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
31zook wrote:
oh, i should fix it then....


Yep, car's are 12v, not 18v.. :lol:
Author:  JrZook [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
Cheers Jas and moph

So to confirm, the ternimal closest to the main battery connection is the charge light and the one furthest away is the battery sense, cool.
Well for some out of the world reason she started to work this arve. Weird :?

So i think thats a win!
Author:  sleeperzook [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
steak_knife wrote:
31zook wrote:
oh, i should fix it then....


Yep, car's are 12v, not 18v.. :lol:


Just to add to that, if you're running any sort of EFI set up and the ECU doesn't do voltage correction then you'll end up with crazy Air/Fuel ratios too. This is because of the likely hood of your pumps and injectors being over driven.
Author:  royce [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
sleeperzook wrote:
steak_knife wrote:
31zook wrote:
oh, i should fix it then....


Yep, car's are 12v, not 18v.. :lol:


Just to add to that, if you're running any sort of EFI set up and the ECU doesn't do voltage correction then you'll end up with crazy Air/Fuel ratios too. This is because of the likely hood of your pumps and injectors being over driven.


Ummm no, fuel pressure is mechanically regulated and the injectors cant get any more open then they already are

interestingly, when I had a buggered one on mine, even though it blew a heap of bulbs I had no engine running dramas
Author:  JrZook [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
royce wrote:

Ummm no, fuel pressure is mechanically regulated and the injectors cant get any more open then they already are



True injectors are either open or closed but its the opening time or latency that is affected by supply voltage hence altering the overall fuel delivery. It is pretty poor practise for an ecu to not have voltage compensation.

But yea 18V!!!! Didnt you think this was slightly odd 31zook?
Author:  31zook [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More EL falcon 110amp alternator Q's
JrZook wrote:
But yea 18V!!!! Didnt you think this was slightly odd 31zook?


:lol: checked it just then and it's 14.44V

sorry guy's but last night i would have put money on that statement.... maybe i remember it being higher then normal then thought it was 18V....dunno....

so 14.44V will be fine for a TBI ecu?
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