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G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
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Author:  canberramav [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:53 am ]
Post subject:  G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
Ok i know i asked a similar question an while ago but things have changed a bit.

Ive got hold of a mpi engine so this will be the basis of the turbo buildup. I have consulted with oozuk and gotten some good advice off him but would like to ask around as to others opoinions etc.

First up the ECU............

Would this be ok
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/microtech-MT-8-e ... 3cb40c99d0

Im guessing ill need a hand controller on top of this?

Also do you just ring up microtech for the basic maps etc? Will i need any additional wiring to make it work?

Thanks
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
microtech & rotory's go well together, cause the eng blow's up before you relies the ecu's shit..

I had a microtech, hated the thing, wouldn't stay tuned & was a prick to set up..
Author:  boostedbrick [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
Microtech is good for something you dont drive often... Got fuck all load points, the LT8 has 256, i think the MT8 only has 128? Id run one in a track car where most of the work it does is WOT... And is stekky said they need tuneing often..

otherwise go a look at a megasquirt, cheaper and in the end more tuneable...
Author:  LAY80N [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
Microtech = :cry: Stecky speaks the truth. They make a great door stop or paper weight though :wink:
There are so many good ECU's out there now. Haltech make some good stuff. I have been playing with an Adaptronic E420 recently, quite a good ECU for the money. Depending on what you want to spend, there are some great options that will give you control over basically everything you want and probably stuff you never will including wastegate control, traction, launch control, anti-lag. You probably wouldnt use them, but they are cool never the less :lol:


Layto....
Author:  bazook [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
michrotech= an empty wallet each week. I've had 2 cars running the microtech and your always getting a tune at the end of month because its lost a map or such.... If your going to get a computer try ems or haltech or other
Author:  canberramav [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
The mechanic putting the motor together isnt overly familiar with aftermarket ucu's.

Is Megasquirt up to the task of running something similar to oozuks setup?That is what im aiming for.

Otherwise what is a good ecu to use for beginners?

Thanks
Author:  IN2DEP [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
Heltech are good, my mate used a heltech in his Swift GTI :wink:
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
http://auszookers.com/index.php?name=Fo ... ic&t=15887

Have a read, I'm sure Damo will answer any question's to.. :D
Author:  canberramav [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
Ive read Damos thread. Its good info but seems a bit too rocket science like for me.

Maybe ill look at haltech or something that comes with a basic tune than i can get it started with then go from there?
Author:  Fatzook [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
canberramav wrote:
Ive read Damos thread. Its good info but seems a bit too rocket science like for me.

Maybe ill look at haltech or something that comes with a basic tune than i can get it started with then go from there?


Find a good tuner that you are happy with BEFORE buying an ECU. That way you can discuss you options with a professional and hopefully agree on the best coarse of action. If you involve the tuner they will be more 'invested' in the project and hopefully get you an A-class tune.
Author:  boostedbrick [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
There are alot of base maps available for the megasquirts, if you are good with google... even check the MS fourms as alot of people on there will have maps.. Another option is find a base map for a G16b to suit another brand of ECU, then transfer it across the best you can. Then go from there...
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
canberramav wrote:
Ive read Damos thread. Its good info but seems a bit too rocket science like for me.

Maybe ill look at haltech or something that comes with a basic tune than i can get it started with then go from there?


I'm under the impression squirt's do, I have been looking at a Micro Squirt.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/micr ... -c-35.html
Author:  atari4x4 [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
Image

i think this sums up microtech
Author:  31zook [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
i know what thread thats from gus, it was a sad story reading it...
Author:  canberramav [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
It seems from googling around that tuners in Canberra are using Microtech. I have read some cases of them not beibg any good but alot of people use them without fail.

How many actual cases of them failing do you know of?

Appaently they are the simplest ECU to use?

I really have NFI by the way.

Cheers
Author:  Fatzook [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
canberramav wrote:
It seems from googling around that tuners in Canberra are using Microtech. I have read some cases of them not beibg any good but alot of people use them without fail.

How many actual cases of them failing do you know of?

Appaently they are the simplest ECU to use?

I really have NFI by the way.

Cheers


They don't fail. ANd yes they are simple. Archaicly simple.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
Fatzook wrote:
canberramav wrote:
It seems from googling around that tuners in Canberra are using Microtech. I have read some cases of them not beibg any good but alot of people use them without fail.

How many actual cases of them failing do you know of?

Appaently they are the simplest ECU to use?

I really have NFI by the way.

Cheers


They don't fail. ANd yes they are simple. Archaicly simple.


but their tech support is chocked full of fail.
Author:  Fatzook [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
atari4x4 wrote:
Fatzook wrote:
canberramav wrote:
It seems from googling around that tuners in Canberra are using Microtech. I have read some cases of them not beibg any good but alot of people use them without fail.

How many actual cases of them failing do you know of?

Appaently they are the simplest ECU to use?

I really have NFI by the way.

Cheers


They don't fail. ANd yes they are simple. Archaicly simple.


but their tech support is chocked full of fail.


I think you misunderstood me.

If a good ecu ( adaptronics, haltec etc) was Albert Einstein, then Microtech would be
Image
Author:  atari4x4 [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
i understand that, their tech support is run by the offspring of simple jack
Author:  sleeperzook [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
From my experience with aftermarket ecu's there's a lot of deciding factors involved when people form an opinion. I personally run a Haltech e6x on my turbo gti sierra. its the only e series ecu they still produce because its such a success with guys like us. People that want a reliable fuel and ignition computer that is widely supported in parts, service and component compatibility. For example it will plug and play with pretty well any GM sensor, so things are cheap.

If you're tech savvy the nerds have a lot of fun and success with mega squirts, but from an earlier post of you're id probably say steer clear lol. So its prob $$$ you're looking at so Haltech would be a good start, most other stuff starts going up in price.

Basically the real issue with micro techs is their small maps. Basically the tuner will tune your car to input a set amount of fuel and timing for a given load point (which relates to rpm and engine vacuum/boost). What happens with a small map is you get low resolution, meaning depending on the rpm range of your engine you may only be able to tune points at say every 500rpm increments which makes your tune rough as guts. For example a factory ecu might be able to tune to 50rpm increments and the difference shows. The car will likely run fine on road but power, economy and the annoying things like idle and cold starts will be crap. Hence why track guys use them because they dont care when 99% of the time the engine is WOT and revving its guts out.

No doubt someone else could explain this better, but its my 2c.
Author:  canberramav [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
How does this sound for price and what is the wiring loom cost if it doesnt have it with it?

http://www.allclassifieds.com.au/ac/ac0 ... =122868565

Can this be reconfigured for the G16b from the subaru setup?
Author:  JrZook [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
sleeperzook wrote:

Basically the real issue with micro techs is their small maps. Basically the tuner will tune your car to input a set amount of fuel and timing for a given load point (which relates to rpm and engine vacuum/boost). What happens with a small map is you get low resolution, meaning depending on the rpm range of your engine you may only be able to tune points at say every 500rpm increments which makes your tune rough as guts. For example a factory ecu might be able to tune to 50rpm increments and the difference shows. The car will likely run fine on road but power, economy and the annoying things like idle and cold starts will be crap.



Factory ECU's used to run 16x16 or even 8x8 maps no problems. The resolution between rpm/load steps aint the issue its the resolution of the injector opening time. The ECU's at least should be capable of 4-point linear interpolation between load and RPM points (factory and most aftermarket ecu's). If it doesnt it is poor software practice and thus you will need many many tune points on the map ie 50rpm increments to make up for the ecu's incapability to interpolate between values. Yes this approach will work but teh amount of time required to tune say a 128x128 map compared to an 8x8 is huge. Hence the 8x8 map with interpolation will produce the same if not better outcome than a 128x128 fixed map.

Find something with better than 100us injector opening time resolution.
Author:  sleeperzook [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
canberramav wrote:
How does this sound for price and what is the wiring loom cost if it doesnt have it with it?

http://www.allclassifieds.com.au/ac/ac0 ... =122868565

Can this be reconfigured for the G16b from the subaru setup?


The E8 is a fuel and ignition computer so itd be sweet for what you want. From memory the harness' come in a short and long length and were around the $250-$350 range. This is for the e6x but im fairly sure itll be similar. Check out the Haltech website, its all there including software downloads. My brother made his own, just bought the plug, but we are aircraft eleco's.

As for price, personally anything second hand is worth what someone will pay for it, so its your call what you're comfortable with. Gut feeling is i definitely wouldnt pay any more (new with warranty is $1350) but Id wait and see what else is about. My e6x cost $600 with loom a couple years ago as an idea but Im not sure what e8's go for.
Author:  RIKSTR [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
Just my 2c, EMS make a good computer, I have used one for a turbo 12A and it was really easy to use and ran well.
Author:  Fatzook [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
RIKSTR wrote:
Just my 2c, EMS make a good computer, I have used one for a turbo 12A and it was really easy to use and ran well.


I have an EMS 4860 for cammo. Never fitted it, but I have seen a few different cars being tuned with the EMS units and the results were good.
Author:  mnemonix [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
Find a tuner that you're going to deal with and take whatever ECU they recommend you use.
No point getting an ecu with all the bells and whistles if your tuner is 500km away :D

I've had a microtech before with no complaints, although I know of all the issues other people have faced and they're pretty common. Wandering fuel map and poor idle/cold start are the most common gripes.

On my current zook I run an Adaptronic E420c. GREAT ecu for the price, and I have the ecu designer and most experienced tuners within an hours drive.
Author:  canberramav [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
Thanks for the info guys.

Just went to local tuner who is the dealer for Haltec. Im looking at $1650 for a ecu and to have it supplied and fitted then tuned was going to be up near $3000!!!

Bloody hell im in the wrong business.

The reason im considering the Microtech is they are cheap and i dont need the best of the best as it is only going into my comp truck.

The local bloke sells Microtech as well and thinks it is ok.

I just dont know now. I didnt anticipate this kind of expense.
Author:  canberramav [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
Oops double posted.........
Author:  Fatzook [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
canberramav wrote:
Thanks for the info guys.

Just went to local tuner who is the dealer for Haltec. Im looking at $1650 for a ecu and to have it supplied and fitted then tuned was going to be up near $3000!!!

Bloody hell im in the wrong business.

The reason im considering the Microtech is they are cheap and i dont need the best of the best as it is only going into my comp truck.

The local bloke sells Microtech as well and thinks it is ok.

I just dont know now. I didnt anticipate this kind of expense.


$3K for tuning? That doesn't sound right at all.... thats like 20 hours on the dyno!!! 8O

Get another opinion.
Author:  canberramav [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16b mpi turbo. help with ECU etc...
No

$3000 is for supply of ECU and wiring it up and then tuning it.

Canberra is always expensive.
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