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vitara wont start after head replacement
https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18327		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  EldarO [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  vitara wont start after head replacement
i bought a vitara with a cracked head, bought a new head, put it all back together, and it wont start.

symptoms:
cylinder compression from back to front, dry: 190,190,190,185
all the spark plugs are brand new
we're getting a very strong spark on all four cylinders
we're getting fuel at all four cylinders
cam/crank timing is 100% correct
dizzy timing is 100% correct, 10 degrees BTDC

however, if we retard the timing to around 30btdc, the car starts, and runs, sort of...

if i hold my foot flat to the floor it runs smoothly at around 1500rpm.

if we move the timing back or forth from this point, it wont run, whatever we try.

if we disconnect the cam breather hose just before the throttle body, the car runs smoother.

it all ran 100% perfectly and smoothly, good power etc before, when it had the cracked head, but im just baffled as to what im supposed to do, i need ideas?!?!
Author:  89_tintop [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
does it back fire ?? and cough and fart?
Author:  shep [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
ignition timing is out 180deg. very common mistake.
Author:  EldarO [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
doesnt backfire or cough and fart, timing isnt out 180deg, i cut a teeny hole in the front of the timing cover, so you can see the cam indent lining up
Author:  89_tintop [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
he meant the dizzy is 180 out..
Author:  ajsr [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
EldarO wrote:
i bought a vitara with a cracked head, bought a new head, put it all back together, and it wont start.

symptoms:
cylinder compression from back to front, dry: 190,190,190,185
all the spark plugs are brand new
we're getting a very strong spark on all four cylinders
we're getting fuel at all four cylinders
cam/crank timing is 100% correct
dizzy timing is 100% correct, 10 degrees BTDC

however, if we retard the timing to around 30btdc, the car starts, and runs, sort of...

if i hold my foot flat to the floor it runs smoothly at around 1500rpm.

if we move the timing back or forth from this point, it wont run, whatever we try.

if we disconnect the cam breather hose just before the throttle body, the car runs smoother.

it all ran 100% perfectly and smoothly, good power etc before, when it had the cracked head, but im just baffled as to what im supposed to do, i need ideas?!?!

timing is out.
Author:  EldarO [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
dizzy is not out, because i line the cam and crank up with tdc, then put the dizzy in the correct way.
Author:  ajsr [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
swap the leads directly across on the dist cap and see what happens
Author:  89_tintop [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
yeh...



but... humour us and try it

it has been done many times before... and will be done again.. it all looks good and lines up but it can be out
Author:  EldarO [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
swapping the leads is the same as putting the dizzy 180 degrees out, and ive humoured myself enough to have tried that already!

im a little bit suss with the AFM, why does the car run better if i put an air leak after the AFM?
Author:  Westie [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
There are 2 TWO marks on the cam E & I what one are you using
Author:  EldarO [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
the one im using would be "E"

its a 1993 long wheel base G16B
Author:  want33s [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
Did you drop the dissy in at TDC on No.1?











If you did.....................
You fucked up... It should be at TDC on No.4.
Author:  EldarO [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
ummm....
what?
Author:  shep [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
EldarO wrote:
ummm....
what?


like we have been saying it is a common fuckup.
the dizzy is set at tdc on #4.
it had me fucked for days the first time i had a dizzy out.
Author:  EldarO [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
so how does that transfer onto the crank?

do i still line it up with the tdc groove, just 180 out?
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
Isn't the ign base timing 5 deg not 10
That's wat the book at my mates shop said
That's wat I just did the other day and it's running fine
Author:  royce [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
An engine wont run 180 degrees out, I doubt it would run 150 degrees out either :wink:

Does the check engine light go out when its running?

as Westie said, 2 ways you can fit the pulley on the cam, the wrong one will make it run like that

FWIW a common mistake with these engines is cylinder 1 is on compression when the cam keyway is pointing down, not up and timed like every other engine in the world, so when the cam and crank marks are lined up you are actually on compression cylinder 4
Author:  shep [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
royce wrote:
An engine wont run 180 degrees out, I doubt it would run 150 degrees out either :wink:


mine did, if ya call lots of popping and backfiring running. :wink:
Author:  shep [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
EldarO wrote:
so how does that transfer onto the crank?

do i still line it up with the tdc groove, just 180 out?



dont forget that the crank spins twice for one revolution of the cam
Author:  EldarO [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
the engine runs, when ignition timing is about 30-40 degrees retarded, but even then, only when foot is flat on the gas, and even then, its limited to about 1500rpm.

when i line the harmonic balancer (crank pulley, whatever) up with TDC, and the cam up with TDC (keep in mind, i can see when this is through the hole in my timing cover, and after this is done, ive put the dizzy in, lined up with all of its marks, and it still doesnt run, only when i take the dizzy's torq head bolt out, retard the dizzy fully, and put the bolt back in so its hitting the OUTSIDE of the dizzy adjustment casting, will it run.

is anyone getting what im trying to say?!

im honestly starting to think the ECU that ran it fine last week is FUBAR
Author:  royce [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
yeah we get what you are saying but you arent listening to us, good way to get ignored for every problem you have in the future
Author:  shep [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
EldarO wrote:
the engine runs, when ignition timing is about 30-40 degrees retarded, but even then, only when foot is flat on the gas, and even then, its limited to about 1500rpm.

when i line the harmonic balancer (crank pulley, whatever) up with TDC, and the cam up with TDC (keep in mind, i can see when this is through the hole in my timing cover, and after this is done, ive put the dizzy in, lined up with all of its marks, and it still doesnt run, only when i take the dizzy's torq head bolt out, retard the dizzy fully, and put the bolt back in so its hitting the OUTSIDE of the dizzy adjustment casting, will it run.

is anyone getting what im trying to say?!

im honestly starting to think the ECU that ran it fine last week is FUBAR



try lining everything up again, then pull the dizzy out.
spin the crank once then stick the dizzy back in.

i know it sounds silly but just give it a try, after all you have nothing to lose. :wink:


if it was running then it stands to reason that the problem is something to do with
the head replacement.
Author:  31zook [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
royce wrote:
yeah we get what you are saying but you arent listening to us, good way to get ignored for every problem you have in the future


:lol:
Author:  EldarO [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
royce wrote:
yeah we get what you are saying but you arent listening to us, good way to get ignored for every problem you have in the future


all of you are saying to spin the rotor 180 degrees.

i have done this.

at least 4 times, back and forth.
Author:  ajsr [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
no read what shep has said. in fact read it twice
Author:  EldarO [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
so ill read what shep has written again? twice? about the timing being out 180 degrees? and then ill do it 5,6,7,8 times?

i can understand someone setting the timing out by 180 degrees if they cannot see the mark on the cam gear, i dont have this issue.
Author:  shep [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
EldarO wrote:
royce wrote:
yeah we get what you are saying but you arent listening to us, good way to get ignored for every problem you have in the future


all of you are saying to spin the rotor 180 degrees.

i have done this.

at least 4 times, back and forth.


no we are saying pull the dizzy out and spin the crank 360deg then re fit the dizzy.

which way is your rotor pointing with both rockers on #1 loose?
Author:  royce [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
EldarO wrote:
royce wrote:
yeah we get what you are saying but you arent listening to us, good way to get ignored for every problem you have in the future


all of you are saying to spin the rotor 180 degrees.

i have done this.

at least 4 times, back and forth.


No, a heap of wrong people are saying spin it 180

Westie wrote:
There are 2 TWO marks on the cam E & I what one are you using


royce wrote:
An engine wont run 180 degrees out, I doubt it would run 150 degrees out either :wink:

Does the check engine light go out when its running?

as Westie said, 2 ways you can fit the pulley on the cam, the wrong one will make it run like that

FWIW a common mistake with these engines is cylinder 1 is on compression when the cam keyway is pointing down, not up and timed like every other engine in the world, so when the cam and crank marks are lined up you are actually on compression cylinder 4


You need to pull the timing cover off, the timing belt off, the cam pulley off and put it back on on the other kayway slot in it, it can go on 2 ways and it alters the cam timing when you do
Author:  royce [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: vitara wont start after head replacement
EldarO wrote:
so ill read what shep has written again? twice? about the timing being out 180 degrees? and then ill do it 5,6,7,8 times?

i can understand someone setting the timing out by 180 degrees if they cannot see the mark on the cam gear, i dont have this issue.


when you can see the mark, are you setting to number 4? cause thats how Suzukis are set
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