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GV rear main seal
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Author:  shabz [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  GV rear main seal
So i put the car up on the ramps today, had a quick look underneath and saw a heap of oil on the back of the sump, running down to the sump plug and dripping off.

Stuck my head in a little further and noticed oil all over the exhaust, front diff and tailshaft, all over the the chassis and all over the bottom of the gearbox near where it bolts to the motor.

Immediate though is that its the rear main. Just under where the clutch goes, theres a couple of little sqaure holes - they look like drain plugs....lot of oil leaking out from there.

Spent some more time investigating.....im 99% sure its the rear main.

2 days ago it was fine, then i noticed a spray of oil droplets all over my rear bar and spare tyre.....im thinking that the rear main just let go when on the freeway or something.....and as it leaked out the bottom the air sucked it back onto the back door when driving.

Anyways - i never knew they could just let go like that, always thought they start off as a slow leak and just get worse. (thats what my front main seal did)

Also i checked the oil level - just under full, so it doesn't look like its lost alot of oil.

So how much work is involved to change it?
exhaust
front tailshaft
gearbox + transfer case
rear tailshaft
interior consol + gear levers
clutch

Thats what i can see so far - am i missing anything?

Also i've changed the front main seal....took 3ish hours taking my time, no problems and fairly straight forward.

Do i attempt to change the seal myself or get a mechanic to do it? Anything else i should be aware of?

Thanks in advance!
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
put a new clutch in while it's apart, machine flywheel, new spigot & thrust bearings.

IMO i would use a geniune rear main seal.

when mine went i sent it to my mechanic to do as i couldn't be bothered doing it on the ground, plus i got a loan car.
Author:  shabz [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
atari4x4 wrote:
put a new clutch in while it's apart, machine flywheel, new spigot & thrust bearings.

IMO i would use a geniune rear main seal.

when mine went i sent it to my mechanic to do as i couldn't be bothered doing it on the ground, plus i got a loan car.


That will fix that annoying squeak each time i press the clutch pedal! :roll:

genuine all the way :wink:

Im guessing it wouldn't be cheap to get a mechanic to do it either....considering the amount of work involved....$1000+?
Author:  ninjamoses [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Gone through any muddy puddles lately? :)

You've pretty much nailed it mate with what is required (well for a Vitara anyway, I'm sure a Grand Vit will be pretty much identical).

I did mine myself with the help of a mate. Hardest part is dropping the gearbox/transfer, if you don't have a transmission jack they are a bit of a handful.

Handy trick that I learnt (unfortunately not until I had already dropped mine) is to run a strap around the transmission, up through the gear lever hole and loop it over a bit of 2x4 or similar. I used a tie down to do it, worked wonders as it allows you to slowly/safely lower/raise it.

Mechanics will want $500+ in labour, so if you've got time to burn I reckon have a crack at it yourself :)
Author:  Taylor74 [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Book time for rear main Manual i think 6 or 7 hours if i remember.Autos are a pain in the arse.

The seals are a pain in the arse to fit as the crank does not have a lip on it to get the rear main seal on before the outer of the seal goes into the block.
There is a genuine tool to fit them though I don't own one. You can do it without but it's a pain in the arse.
Yes you will need to drop all of them listed.
While you are in there I'd suggest to replace the clutch fork and pivot pin as they wear quite badley.
Best to get a genuine seal They have been modified a couple of times to rectify rear main failures PN 09283-98002 cost about the $90 mark The Fork and pivot pin is just over $70 if i remember corectly
Author:  shabz [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
ninjamoses wrote:
Gone through any muddy puddles lately? :)


Actually about a week ago i drove through a small creek the flooded over the road. Clean water - about 20cm high.....but i did power on through it and ended up with water in the airbox.....stoopid snorkel still sitting in the box next on the to do list.

Do you think that water may have had something to do with it?
Author:  shabz [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Taylor74 wrote:
Book time for rear main Manual i think 6 or 7 hours if i remember.Autos are a pain in the arse.

The seals are a pain in the arse to fit as the crank does not have a lip on it to get the rear main seal on before the outer of the seal goes into the block.
There is a genuine tool to fit them though I don't own one. You can do it without but it's a pain in the arse.
Yes you will need to drop all of them listed.
While you are in there I'd suggest to replace the clutch fork and pivot pin as they wear quite badley.
Best to get a genuine seal They have been modified a couple of times to rectify rear main failures PN 09283-98002 cost about the $90 mark The Fork and pivot pin is just over $70 if i remember corectly


Thanks for that! Im thinking it will be worth doing everything i can whilst im in there.

I'll give suzuki a call during the week and sus out part numbers and pricing.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
shabz wrote:
ninjamoses wrote:
Gone through any muddy puddles lately? :)


Actually about a week ago i drove through a small creek the flooded over the road. Clean water - about 20cm high.....but i did power on through it and ended up with water in the airbox.....stoopid snorkel still sitting in the box next on the to do list.

Do you think that water may have had something to do with it?


yep, mine went after a swimming session through some crunchy iced coffee coloured water.
Author:  shabz [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
atari4x4 wrote:
shabz wrote:
ninjamoses wrote:
Gone through any muddy puddles lately? :)


Actually about a week ago i drove through a small creek the flooded over the road. Clean water - about 20cm high.....but i did power on through it and ended up with water in the airbox.....stoopid snorkel still sitting in the box next on the to do list.

Do you think that water may have had something to do with it?


yep, mine went after a swimming session through some crunchy iced coffee coloured water.


Are the seals really that vulnerable to water? Or is it more a combination of water with crap in it, plus an old/worn seal?
Can anything be done to prevent this at all?
Author:  steak_knife [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
shabz wrote:
Are the seals really that vulnerable to water? Or is it more a combination of water with crap in it, plus an old/worn seal?
Can anything be done to prevent this at all?


yes, yes, new seal... :wink:

& Taylor74 just saved me some typing... :lol:
Author:  inbits [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Mine let go all of a sudden aswell one drive was fine when I left and when I got home it was pissing oil and it was everywhere.
I paid 103 for the rear main including gst and I'd definitely go genuine mine is an auto and it took me about 8 hours by myself.
Author:  gregdixon [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
inbits wrote:
Mine let go all of a sudden aswell one drive was fine when I left and when I got home it was pissing oil and it was everywhere.
I paid 103 for the rear main including gst and I'd definitely go genuine mine is an auto and it took me about 8 hours by myself.


My car did the same, fine when I went on a quick trip to sappers then when I got home I noticed it leaking.

It took me about a week greg time to change the seal and put in a new clutch, so most could get it done in a day easy with help. I procrastinated, thats the trouble with a big shed you can leave stuff pulled apart for ages. Ask my poor KTM :oops:
Author:  Mugwui [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Mine let go in the same way, but I was fortunate enough to have a steak_knife at hand. Very useful tool these! I recommend everyone to keep one around the house.
Check out my build up thread, I think I pit some step by step pics.
Author:  shabz [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
So it seems it's more common than i thought

Well im thinking at this point to do it myself....i don't want to imagine what a mechanic would charge....though i will make a couple calls just out of interest.

Whats the gearbox/transfer weigh? and best way to lower and raise it? at a guess probably 50-60kgs? I think thats going to be the hardest part. Looking at it again it doesn't seem too complex...just alot of work for a stoopid seal :roll:

for the seal and other clutch related bits i'll go genuine - but is it better to go for a genuine clutch also? or are the after market ones ok? if so any recommended brands...as its been 10+ years since i last bought a clutch kit.
Author:  Mugwui [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
After helping Stekky do mine, I would definitely give it a crack myself next time, but you will need the help of someone else. The box and tcase would have to be about right may be slightly heavier. You will also need to get a hold of a couple of very long ratchet extension bars to be able to get to a few box bolts.
As for the clutch, I took my fly wheel and the old clutch to a clutch specalist, told them about all the mods that I have and the size of rubber on it and they built me one to suit my car. Cost around $350.
also, hunt around a couple of different Suzuki dealers for your seal. The quotes I got ranged from $90 up to $150 for the same genuine part number.
Oh, you will also need 2 jacks to support the box & tcase, gear oil, oil pump,
A carton of beer and a lot of patience.
Author:  remydog05 [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Im about to do mine in the J20a and Auto while its out before conversion into a Sierra.

Any tips?? Will I need the tool mentioned by Taylor74?
Author:  inbits [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
I done mine without the tool j20
May be different though
Author:  Taylor74 [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
J20 is much the same.

You dont need the tool just makes it easier. Just be patient when you go to put the seal in. most common thing ppl do is accidently pop the spring on the back of the seal off before the seal is in, easy enough to put it back on and have annother try.
I will only put a daken exceedy clutch in them, closest thing to a genuine clutch you can get as suzuki use Daken from factory.
Sizistore have all the parts in stock all the time if you get stuck.
Author:  sando [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Just make sure you check that the crank isn't worn excessively by the seal if it is a new seal will leak also. Apply abit of grease to the inside of the seal to help it slide easier (the part that will contact the crank). Take your time and do it properly, I haven't had a look under a GV but if they are suzuki they can't be overly hard or very heavy. Use a trolley jack to support the gearbox and if you can chain it down, you do not want to drop a gearbox while you are pulling at back, replacing a bent input shaft is alot more expensive then simply doing a rear main. If you have any questions feel free to ask
Author:  remydog05 [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Thanks for the info above.
I will start chasing the seal 2moro.
Im prob crazy not to do it while its out and easy to get at.
Is there any life span on the seals? EG Do it this week and it should last aprox 2-3 years or 100,000klms?? Or Im guessing MUD + Water= Problems!
Author:  atari4x4 [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
i got 100,000 out of mine before it died about here...

Image
Author:  inbits [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Mine had done 200000 when I got it it lasted another 3000
Author:  shabz [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Ok got an update...

Popped into Suzuki after work today to get some quotes on parts.

Rear main oil seal............Part# 09283-98002 $85.72
Input bearing...................Part# 12623-71C01 $41.81
Release bearing...............Part# 23265-65D00 $73.52
Clutch release fork...........Part# 23211-85F00 $65.24
Release fork support........Part# 23221-78A00 $17.81

Clutch 'kit' (pressure & clutch plate only).....Part# 22400-67811 $439.82

The parts guy wasn't sure if the clutch kit included the release bearing though.

While i was there i thought i have a chat to the service department. They were pretty busy so the coversation was fairly quick.
They want "about $1200" for LABOUR ONLY. Parts and fluids extra, flywheel machining and any other bits which is extra aswell. Also they need the car for 3 days!

Anyways at this stage im thinking to order the parts above and do it myself. All except for the clutch kit and release bearing - i'll order an aftermarket one (they seem to include clutch and pressure plate, as well as release bearing, and about the $300ish mark).

I'll organise parts next week, and hopefully next weekend get a start on it. Not in a huge rush as i've got another car i can use for the time being.
Author:  steak_knife [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
shabz wrote:
Rear main oil seal............Part# 09283-98002 $85.72
Clutch release fork...........Part# 23211-85F00 $65.24
Release fork support........Part# 23221-78A00 $17.81


just get them genuine, the clutch kit non gen will have a throw out bearing in it, you can get a spigot bearing non gen for around $2..

& 3 day's??? 8O
Author:  shabz [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
steak_knife wrote:
shabz wrote:
Rear main oil seal............Part# 09283-98002 $85.72
Clutch release fork...........Part# 23211-85F00 $65.24
Release fork support........Part# 23221-78A00 $17.81


just get them genuine, the clutch kit non gen will have a throw out bearing in it, you can get a spigot bearing non gen for around $2..

& 3 day's??? 8O


Yep they were the parts i will definately get genuine. Clutch kit was thinking an Exedy OEM replacement (is "heavy duty" worth it? pros & cons?)

Spigot bearing did sound expensive to me - but for about $2 aftermarket from where? Repco etc?

Yep 3 days!...i reckon i could do it in less than that! :lol:
Author:  steak_knife [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Not a fan of out of the box H/duty kit's, never seen a good one..

The std Exedy is so close to gen it's like they are the same kit, some gen clutch plate's are still stamped Exedy.

Use a jack to support & lower the box, take your time as the bell housing just fit's out the tunnel, so it has to be lowered slowly... & the box's are heavy....
Author:  shabz [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
steak_knife wrote:
Not a fan of out of the box H/duty kit's, never seen a good one..

The std Exedy is so close to gen it's like they are the same kit, some gen clutch plate's are still stamped Exedy.

Use a jack to support & lower the box, take your time as the bell housing just fit's out the tunnel, so it has to be lowered slowly... & the box's are heavy....


Thats what i was thinking - got a small trolley jack (this might be an excuse to get a bigger one that i've been putting off for a while).

So basically jack underneath to take the weight
Undo all bolts
slide the jack to the back of the car, sliding the input shaft clear of the clutch assembly
Then lower the jack, and slide out from under the car
Will this method work?
How high should i have the car? - as i was going to drive it up onto 4 ramps (one each wheel)
Author:  gregdixon [ Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
The transfer case end is the heavy bit. I had to pull down on the bell housing to get it off the studs and shaft. I was pushing it thinking the front was heavier. I had the jack of the flat bit infront of the crossmember.
Author:  steak_knife [ Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
If your up on ramp's you will need a jack that lift's to or above 500mm, 550 to 600 would be perfect..
On the way back in, tha front of the eng will need to be supported/lifted slightly, this help's hold the eng still while pushing the box home & help's give a lil more room for the bell housing..

:P have fun... :P
Author:  shabz [ Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GV rear main seal
Thanks everyone for the usefull info above...im sure it'll come in handy!

All parts are ordered, will pick them up tomorrow.

I put the car up on all 4 ramps and hit all the bolts with some wd-40...especially the ones on the exhaust.

Also having a good look underneath at how im going to get the gearbox out - at the rear of the box, transfer case end, theres a cross member there and a mount holding the transfer up.

Question - Will i need to remove the cross member to get the box out?

Question - Is it easier to leave the cross member/transfer mount attached and lower the whole lot together? I figure it'll be easier to support it on a jack this way.

Also just looking at everything im starting to concider hiring a transmission jack to make life a little easier. Will swing past kennards hire tomorrow for prices.
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