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1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
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Author:  Cut008 [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:55 am ]
Post subject:  1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Hi,

I'm having a bit of an issue with my Vitara...

To begin it's hard to start. Eventually it does but occasionally it takes 10 min's of turning it over first. Sometimes it starts first go but that's pretty rare. When it does finally fire up it struggles a bit then idles high (about 1300rpm) and drives pretty well...

...until I encounter a steep hill. Then it loses pwr and does some mild bunny hops like you see learner drivers do when first learning how to use a clutch.

I've had the issue for a while now. Initially turning it over for 10 mins caused it to crack the head. I got that fixed thinking my problem was over but it wasn't. Took it back to the guy who replaced the head who said it was just a loose vacuum hose which he replaced.

Still had the same issue...

I took it to Suzuki in Footscray who told me the timing was out. They fixed that, said it was running fine, took it home and next day...yup... still hard to start.

I took it back again, they played with the fuel mix, cleaned out the gas recycle system and gave it back to me saying it was fixed and the oldest guy there had to show everyone else how a carby worked...

Gotta admit, it runs better, idles well now (about 800rpm) but...it still doesn't start easily and still loses pwr up steep inclines.

I love this little car, it's fun to drive but damn this is starting to get annoying. I've had some 31's I've been wanting to throw on it for a few months now but with all these issues with basics no fun stuff is going to happen to this car.

Halp!

ps plz excuse the long winded post. :oops:
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
When you say loses power, does it come to a complete stop??

Is it only on hill's or will it do the same on the h/way??

Could be a blocked fuel filter....
Author:  TheRealCJ [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Have you checked the Airbox?

Sounds like you're not sucking in enough oxygen at low speed.
Author:  Cut008 [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Steak_knife, it only does it on steep hills and not on the highway. We're currently looking at buying a hills property and I lose pwr in exactly the same spots every time we drive up there.

TheRealCJ, the air filter is new and when I lose pwr on the steep hills I'm generally doing 60-70kmph along those roads.
Author:  buzbox [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
I vote fuel pump.

I had a similar problem, hard to start, stutters and farts then dies going up hill. I thought it would've been the fuel filter, I replaced it and it still was happening, So then I replaced the fuel pump and problem solved.
Author:  Cut008 [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Thx Buzbox, I gave Suzuki a call and let em know since they're struggling to come up with an answer.

I'm crossing my fingers since the wife just got her L plates after 37 years and she's probably going to take the Vit as her car.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
could be a Blocked Cat Converter in the exhaust.
Author:  SuziBlu [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Gus, I don't think that would make for starting issues, loss of power, yes, but wouldn't that be at any angle.
Author:  stocker [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
SuziBlu wrote:
Gus, I don't think that would make for starting issues, loss of power, yes, but wouldn't that be at any angle.


Thats completly and utterly bollocks :helloo: a Blocked Catalytic Converter could make the Vehicle very hard to start due to the Very high compression being put on the cylinders themselves. it will cause the motor to run poorly. and can do damage to the motor :crazy:


Its an easy one to check too.
Step one - Rip Exhaust off at the end of the Headers.

Step Two - Go For a Burl up the street. :blink:

Bobs your uncle :)
Author:  shaunosj40t [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
It will be the fuel pump replace fuel pump and you should be right to go
Author:  SuziBlu [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Put your hand over the exhaust, block it 100%, then start the motor, it will fire and run perfectly for a while.

IF the cat was 100% blocked then you would have trouble across the whole of the rev range, not just at starting or when at an uphill angle.
Author:  stocker [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Listen SuziBlu i don't need to justify my answer to you, Cut008 Can take my advice or leave it.

But My answer is 100% Correct A Blocked Catalytic Converter Can Cause Problems When Starting. And Can Definitly Cause Power Loss Issues especially when the motor is under load ie: going up a hill.
Author:  SuziBlu [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Have you got some sand in your vagina.

Fuk me what a cunt of an attitude.
Author:  royce [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
stocker wrote:
Listen SuziBlu i don't need to justify my answer to you, Cut008 Can take my advice or leave it.

But My answer is 100% Correct A Blocked Catalytic Converter Can Cause Problems When Starting. And Can Definitly Cause Power Loss Issues especially when the motor is under load ie: going up a hill.


Think about how much air is being pushed through a cat when the engine is cranking and or idleing

Think about how much air is being pumped through a cat when its 'driving normally'

Think about how much more (a whole heap) that is and why can it not pass enough to start but more than enough to 'drive normally'

Think about where the bunny hops comes into it

Think about Aplogising to Suziblu, neither of you may be right, but you are more wrong
Author:  stocker [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
SuziBlu wrote:
Have you got some sand in your vagina.

Fuk me what a cunt of an attitude.


Last time i checked, This part of the forum was For talking about Suzuki's Not me, So keep your comments to yourself. I don't care what you think of me, I Provided some useful advice Unlike your previous comment and was merely trying to help someone out.

What i said to do was a very very easy trick to rule something out in a long list of "What it could Be"

So Stick it Suziblu you clearly haven't got any better advice to give other than comment your worthless opinion on my Attitude.
Author:  SuziBlu [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
lol man you need professional help dude, get some of that sand out of your vagina.

I offered my opinion, you shot it down with a very big gun. "Thats completely and utterly bollocks" sounds to me like you are not offering advise, but attacking my advise. Then cry like a little baby when i disagree with you.

I find blocking the end of an exhaust very good for finding small leaks, you give it a 100% blockage, start the engine, and it will start perfectly, idle perfectly, and you can find the small leaks very easily.

Never known this ?, do yourself a favour, go do it, don't take my word for it, you obviously have something against me, so go try it, serious.
Author:  Cut008 [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Ok guys, thx a heap for all the advice etc I really appreciate it.

Two things are in motion atm.

First is Suzuki ringing me and telling me my starter motor has an intermittant fault and it's been sent off to an auto elec to repair. Seems a strange thing since the motor turns over fine, just doesn't fire easily. They also told me they've advanced my timing to take care of the loss of pwr on steep hills.

/shrug I'm no mechanic.

Second thing is the Vit is booked in to get a whole new exhaust system. It was on my list of things to upgrade (though far down the list) and this whole episode is a good way to slip one past the keeper as such (with wife).

If it's still not fixed there are a few more options thrown at me here I can go through.
Author:  buzbox [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Just to clear things up, What year model Vitara is it? 4 Cylinder? EFI or carby?

It's just my opinion, but If it's not covered under warranty, don't bother with taking it to Suzuki, The fuel pump can be changed with basic hand tools and a jack, If your not confident or simply can't be bothered doing it yourself most mechanics will be much cheaper than Suzuki.
Author:  shaunosj40t [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
SuziBlu wrote:
Have you got some sand in your vagina.

Fuk me what a cunt of an attitude.




hahahaha :D :D :D
Author:  Cut008 [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
1990

4cyl

Carby

Only reason it's at Suzuki is 2 other mechanics couldn't figure out what was wrong with it and I figured these guys at least should know.

Moving to the country as soon as we find the house we want to buy so finally I'll have room to work on it myself and not be bothered by people firebombing cars in the street or rolling onto a syringe when I get under my car.
Author:  Ben_Sierra [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Cut008 wrote:
1990

4cyl

Carby

Only reason it's at Suzuki is 2 other mechanics couldn't figure out what was wrong with it and I figured these guys at least should know.

Moving to the country as soon as we find the house we want to buy so finally I'll have room to work on it myself and not be bothered by people firebombing cars in the street or rolling onto a syringe when I get under my car.


No offence, but most of those mechanics weren't working for Suzuki 21 years ago when the car was new and they were in all the time for warranty services... Why should they know a 1990 Vitara better than any other mechanic?

Lets be honest, a carby vit is not a complicated car, there is nothing particularly special about them mechanically, any competent mechanic should be able to work on one... You need to ask around the local area and find a mechanic with some good reccomendations, cos a dealership will just rip you of...
Author:  Cut008 [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
None taken. It's only at the dealership because 2 different local mechanics couldn't figure out what the cause of the car's problems were. It's also a 2 min walk from my apartment ;)

As for ripping me off, they've actually not charged me anything for all the testing etc they're done on the car, nor the tune, nor the timing.

They did charge me for new rotors and pads though the bastards! :o
Author:  FullyZooked [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Have you dropped your exhaust from the manifold back yet?

When I took mine off I had no difference in power. Then I took the exhaust manifold of and found it had collapsed due to the heat from the partially blocked cat converter. The exhaust manifold had collapsed to the point that you could just squeeze your thumb through the hole on either of the pipes.

But again I was noticing huge power loss across the board. Whilst getting your exhaust done I would suggest get new extractors while your at it.

If this is not the problem all you have left is bad leads-plugs-coil(very probable) or your cam belt has slipped a tooth.

On another note, one not so fun. Could be carby related. I can't help you with that. They are the devil...
Author:  Cut008 [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Thanks FullyZooked.

Yeah the plan was to get extractors. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the Vit exhaust system is pretty avg out of the factory.

It has new plugs, they got changed when the problem first appeared. Coil and leads are still the same though.
Author:  skyman [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Fuel pump and block catalytic converter are what comes to mind for me.

I have had a few cars here with blocked cat converters that caused serious problems for me. Here were the symptoms (hands on experience).

Would start with a little trouble, but idle well, and free rev ok ( with a hissing/muffled sound). They would idle, but the second you gave them gas in gear, they would choke off and want to die. I always first started noticing them when needing power under load (like along incline on the freeway). The more gas yuo gave them under load the worse it became. Floating throttle would help keep it moving, but not help to accelerate. If driven too long this way, the engine will get to the point where it will die just putting it in gear.

An easy test was pulling the o2 sensor. That gives the engine room to breath, if it runs ok without the O2you have found your problem--simple test.


The fuel pump can be a pain to diagnose. Some like to falter under load, and some like to falter when hot, never truly ailing. Being such an intermittent problem they can be a bitch to figure out. The easiest way to pin point a bad fuel pump that is acting up intermittently is to have a pressure gauge attached while the symptoms are present.

We have had the fuel pressure look great at 45+ PSI, and then 15 minutes later drop to 12. By the time we get the gauge on it, it's running great again at 45PSI.
Author:  Cut008 [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Well, picked it up yesterday with it's new starter motor. Stopped and started it twice and both times it immediately started on the first turn. I still don't get why the starter motor would have been the issue but it's working so..../shrug.

Picking it up today from a performance exhaust shop down the road. Extractors, new hi-flow cat, larger pipework and a new muffler. I'm kinda excited.

Tomorrow heading up to the Dandenong's so I can give it a test on some seriously steep hills. If it loses pwr again then I guess the next stop is checking out this fuel pump.
Author:  TZAR [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Cut008 wrote:
Well, picked it up yesterday with it's new starter motor. Stopped and started it twice and both times it immediately started on the first turn. I still don't get why the starter motor would have been the issue but it's working so..../shrug.

Picking it up today from a performance exhaust shop down the road. Extractors, new hi-flow cat, larger pipework and a new muffler. I'm kinda excited.

Tomorrow heading up to the Dandenong's so I can give it a test on some seriously steep hills. If it loses pwr again then I guess the next stop is checking out this fuel pump.


Get them to look at all the old stuff for you and check it to see how bad it was.
Author:  buzbox [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
If it stops going up small hills, you certainly don't want it to stop going up big hills. But anyways, let us know how you go.
Author:  Cut008 [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
Ok, picked it up and gave it a test on the steepest local hill I could find. It's not quite as steep as the Dandenong's but close. Halfway up @ 60kmph I put my foot down and got a noticable increase in pwr. Was doing 75kmph @ the crest. Full test tomorrow.

It also started first turn several times. The starter motor definately sounds different. Smoother?

The old cat was pretty clogged up but not totally and the exhaust note sounds pretty awesome now just quietly :)

Thx again for all the help and direction guys.
Author:  skyman [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1990 Vit hard to start, loss of pwr up steep hills.
I et it was the catalytic converter causing your power loss and bucking on the hills, maybe the hard starts too.
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