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| G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20275 |
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| Author: | billrogers [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
 I am looking for a bit more bottom end torque, a good bit more!!
Can anyone recomend a good cam grind specification to help acheive this? Any other recomendations? I want to stay with the 1.3 as it is a good motor, and I have a great deal of respect for them!! Dont want to be too radical as it is a daily, and stock. Bill |
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| Author: | BlueSuzy [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
Considered a 1.6 bottom end? Have seen a few thread lately for Jimny's. |
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| Author: | MrRocky [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
skim head - more comp but means you will have to run it on 98 octane this gives a real world gain for little cost but make sure your head guy knows what he is doing, on 8v sierra's i have raised it up to 3/4 of a point by doing this and it works really well, i do think the 16v g13bb has slightly more comp to start with. |
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
MrRocky wrote: skim head - more comp but means you will have to run it on 98 octane
this gives a real world gain for little cost but make sure your head guy knows what he is doing, on 8v sierra's i have raised it up to 3/4 of a point by doing this and it works really well, i do think the 16v g13bb has slightly more comp to start with. The BB heads also like to crack, so its probably best to leave the motor alone. |
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| Author: | royce [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
http://www.tighecams.com.au/cars.htm you need to work your way in from there but they do a 16 valve vitara cam so might be able to grind it onto your cam |
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| Author: | JrZook [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
royce wrote: http://www.tighecams.com.au/cars.htm
you need to work your way in from there but they do a 16 valve vitara cam so might be able to grind it onto your cam Arn't the 1300 and 1600 16V heads the same ie they take the same cam as well? |
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| Author: | Ben_Sierra [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
JrZook wrote: royce wrote: http://www.tighecams.com.au/cars.htm you need to work your way in from there but they do a 16 valve vitara cam so might be able to grind it onto your cam Arn't the 1300 and 1600 16V heads the same ie they take the same cam as well? The G13BB is the twin cam GTI motor... Surely the cams would be different? |
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| Author: | JrZook [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
Ben_Sierra wrote: JrZook wrote: royce wrote: http://www.tighecams.com.au/cars.htm you need to work your way in from there but they do a 16 valve vitara cam so might be able to grind it onto your cam Arn't the 1300 and 1600 16V heads the same ie they take the same cam as well? The G13BB is the twin cam GTI motor... Surely the cams would be different? G13BB is a jimny 1300 motor by designation. Stick your 2 cents back in your pocket 
G13B is twin cam |
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| Author: | Ben_Sierra [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
JrZook wrote: Ben_Sierra wrote: JrZook wrote: royce wrote: http://www.tighecams.com.au/cars.htm you need to work your way in from there but they do a 16 valve vitara cam so might be able to grind it onto your cam Arn't the 1300 and 1600 16V heads the same ie they take the same cam as well? The G13BB is the twin cam GTI motor... Surely the cams would be different? G13BB is a jimny 1300 motor by designation. Stick your 2 cents back in your pocket G13B is twin cam My bad, a bit of consusion from not enough sleep... 
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| Author: | royce [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
JrZook wrote: royce wrote: http://www.tighecams.com.au/cars.htm you need to work your way in from there but they do a 16 valve vitara cam so might be able to grind it onto your cam Arn't the 1300 and 1600 16V heads the same ie they take the same cam as well? Same head, G13BB has a cam angle sensor and coil packs though so back of the cam I assume would be different to vitara Baleno cam might fit? |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
Yes, the coil pack baleno cam might be the same. Sadly, though, I don't think you are going to see a detectable increase in low end torque with a cam change, and to do it, you're really just going to move your powerband down, loosing overall HP to shift roughly the same peak torque figure downwards. And that's not taking into account possible computer issues. You can rest assured that suzuki worked very hard to maximise torque at low revs. In fact, it's pretty much what every manufacturer sets out to do for "normal" applications. You could play with an adjustable cam gear [i]and[/] a cam grind, but remember, there's no such thing as a free lunch - gains made in one area mean losses somewhere else. Obviously, you can do the normal extractor, exhaust and airbox mods to improve breathing, maybe play with static timing ( I think that's adjustable on coil pack Jimny's?) and run 98 octane... maybe tweak the fuel pressure a couple of pounds... but all of these are really only incremental improvements and might result in no gain at all if the computer smells a rat. The real solution would be the added stroke of the 1.6 bottom end. You'll pick up 15% or so. However, that will take the auto beyond its rated peak torque load, and the consequences of a junked auto in a jimny are terrifying. (They're dear as poison to replace and massively expensive) You'll also need an adapter plate, and you may want to look at dynoing the end result to ensure it's not leaning out. (that's with the G13 computer running the G16 bottom end) All up, it's an expensive and not risk-free exercise. How's your gearing? If you are running bigger than stock tyres, that's where I'd be spending the money. G13BB/auto jimny's are OK if they are geared right. Steve. |
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| Author: | royce [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
Sticking to the subject of more go from a cam, a basic Tighe cam in a 1.3 sierra really makes it go, to be honest I reckon you would be hard pressed to tell its a 1.3 and not a 1.6 jsut from driving. Worth a go I reckon, I would like to do mine but am too lazy to lean over the engine for that long |
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
royce wrote: Worth a go I reckon, I would like to do mine but am too short to lean over the engine for that long
Fixed  
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| Author: | steak_knife [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
royce wrote: Sticking to the subject of more go from a cam, a basic Tighe cam in a 1.3 sierra really makes it go, to be honest I reckon you would be hard pressed to tell its a 1.3 and not a 1.6 jsut from driving.
Worth a go I reckon, I would like to do mine but am too lazy to lean over the engine for that long Buy me one for sully then...  
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| Author: | Brenno [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
Gwagensteve wrote: Obviously, you can do the normal extractor, exhaust and airbox mods to improve breathing, maybe play with static timing ( I think that's adjustable on coil pack Jimny's?) and run 98 octane... maybe tweak the fuel pressure a couple of pounds... but all of these are really only incremental improvements and might result in no gain at all if the computer smells a rat. geared right. Steve. I'm pretty sure you are unable to change the timing unless its via the ECU. The CAS on the back of the head has no adjustability. I tried this when I had the supercharged setup. |
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| Author: | billrogers [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
Many thanks to all for the replies, I am considering the Tighe Cam upgrade along with exhaust ststem mods, ie, still use the stock headers and engine pipe, then to a 50mm cat and 50mm system from then on out. On previous projects this method of exhaust mods has proved sucessful. Bill '99 Jimny JLX, Auto *Stock* G13BB On Coopers A/T 205/70-15 |
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| Author: | royce [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
Brenno wrote: Gwagensteve wrote: Obviously, you can do the normal extractor, exhaust and airbox mods to improve breathing, maybe play with static timing ( I think that's adjustable on coil pack Jimny's?) and run 98 octane... maybe tweak the fuel pressure a couple of pounds... but all of these are really only incremental improvements and might result in no gain at all if the computer smells a rat. geared right. Steve. I'm pretty sure you are unable to change the timing unless its via the ECU. The CAS on the back of the head has no adjustability. I tried this when I had the supercharged setup. There is a pin on the stock ecu that is labelled timing resistor, unsure what it does but one day I am going to hook a variable one up to it on a dyno and see what happens 
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| Author: | billrogers [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
Hi Royce, it seems that a few changeable resistors avilable to change the advance, I hav'ent looked into it too far yet.... your variable link will be interesting.... Possibly an extra 2 Degrees (before) might be an advantage? Back in my old holden days a few more degs advance always proved to be better....Bill |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
billrogers wrote: Many thanks to all for the replies, I am considering the Tighe Cam upgrade along with exhaust ststem mods, ie, still use the stock headers and engine pipe, then to a 50mm cat and 50mm system from then on out. On previous projects this method of exhaust mods has proved sucessful.
Bill I'm interested as to your reasoning here Bill. It strikes me that there's quite a lot of research to be done before going down this route. Have you spoken to Tighe? I have no idea if Vitaras and Jimnies (or for that matter, Balenos) run the same cam profiles. Tighe may offer a regrind to the specs they outline on their site using your cam ( remember that your cam has no distributor drive - it's not a vitara cam) but you'd be on your own as to whether your computer would like the cam. My reasoning is that tighe offer a "standard ecu" cam, that's pretty mild from the look of it, but that's a standard vitara ECU, not a standard Jimny ECU, where you are already some 15% down on power and torque. Under those circumstances, a mild cam for a 1.6 is going to turn into a fair bit bigger cam on a 1.3. It would be quite annoying if what turned out to be a pretty mild power increase upset the ECU. Why on earth would you use a stock cast header and engine pipe and then step up to 2" after all the restriction? I have driven a 1.6 with a reground cam, extractors, adjustable cam gear, and exhaust. It drove quite well, but still had a torque hole under about 3200rpm on the highway. Go for your life and all, but it's a much bigger, and potentially expensive experiment to mess with cams in an EFI car than a carby car. Interestingly, the condition where the car is most likely to run at it's worst with a different cam would be transitioning between coast and acceleration on the highway. Under full power it would probably run fine, but it's all the small throttle openings where the fuelling and drivability are likely to go to poo - when the motor is switching between open and closed loop. Steve. |
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| Author: | steak_knife [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
Gwagensteve wrote: Go for your life and all, but it's a much bigger, and potentially expensive experiment to mess with cams in an EFI car than a carby car.
Steve. so you think the Ecu won't be able to compensate???
i think , it would.... |
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
steak_knife wrote: Gwagensteve wrote: Go for your life and all, but it's a much bigger, and potentially expensive experiment to mess with cams in an EFI car than a carby car. Steve. so you think the Ecu won't be able to compensate??? i think , it would.... I don't. Its probably already at the limit of its learning parameters with the G16 bottom end.
Besides, wouldn't it be advanagious to TUNE the ECU for the cam? Surely the fuel points and loads will have shifted???? |
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| Author: | steak_knife [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
| But he want's to stay 1.3........
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
steak_knife wrote: :? But he want's to stay 1.3........
Right you are 
I guess it depend how agressive the cam is.....
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| Author: | JrZook [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G13BB Cam Grind? AUTO ! |
steak_knife wrote: Gwagensteve wrote: Go for your life and all, but it's a much bigger, and potentially expensive experiment to mess with cams in an EFI car than a carby car. Steve. so you think the Ecu won't be able to compensate??? i think , it would.... A MAF based ECU has alot better compensation than a MAP based one which I think the 13bb is? |
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