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coil conversion VS leaf suspension
https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20769		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  MrRocky [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  coil conversion VS leaf suspension
trying to figure out what type of suspension setup is going to be best for me to run in the lwb for high speed desert type events.
I have done a fair bit of research on the way to set up leafs for racing but after watching a round of the offroad racing it became apparent that the leaf spring cars are miles behind the coilsprung cars, but in saying that they were mainly standard setups without much thought put into them and i do think i could vastly improve on there setups but it may not be enough to keep up with the big boys running coils.
Now most of the weld on coil kits i have found (2 in total) look shit, i realise i would have to run decent swaybar setups to combat roll but they look like they wouldnt go the distance.
The other option is to adapt a complete setup of another coilsprung car
I know the aim is not to get to flash and to keep it as simple as i can for functionality and longevity but theres not too much on offer.

Any guidance appreciated :blink:
Author:  Teracis [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
Dakar Zook?

I've really got no idea except to say maybe look into what the dakar and rally lads do (the idea, I know they don't drive sierras) and see if you can't get some info like that.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
IFS for the win.... stick the LWB shell on a Vitara LWB chassis.
Author:  SierraDan [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
I'd say long travel coilovers are the best option.
Because to get the best absorption from jumps and things wouldn't you need to run really long leaves?
Author:  MrRocky [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
ultimate gayness ^^^
Author:  SierraDan [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
You are.. 8O
I timed my reply well haha
Author:  Fatzook [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
Coilovers are the best way. That way you can get long travel, low ride height, adjustable valving, rebound, damping, coil rates etc, and have a compact setup. I saw a LWB sierra many years ago with this setup and it was built for Finke. Worked VERY well :wink:
Author:  JrZook [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
Leafs are outdated and do take a lot to work well! That said the coil system will still out-handle it in many aspects bar simplicity.

You are asking a bloody lot with the leaf system. The leaf has to locate the axle, suspend the car, control axle wrap etc. Also the way it works with the shackle, suspending the car, things tend to fight each other. The example here is once the spring starts to compress, the spring rate increases as expected but the angle the shackle forms effectively lowers the rate. This progressively gets worse as the shackle angle becomes more serve. So you are left with an inconsistent spring rate.

Speaking of spring rates, another thing to overcome is the 'stiction' between the leafs or static friction. This stiction increases the initial spring rate of the pack, which in effect transmits most of what you hit through to the chassis/body.

Many of these issues ive outlined are just in the spring design itself, the coil is simple and will overcome these and works the way its intended to ie increased load, compressed spring, increased spring rate. This will take care of suspending the vehicle and control/radius arms, panhard rod etc will take care of locating the axle.

For high speed and handling I think this is the way to go but don't get me wrong, a well setup leaf car will still out handle a poor setup coil car.

That's all i got for now

Dan
Author:  alien [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
won't that exclude you from the suzuki class though? if you're not worried about that then you might as well just go all out.

i would think taking the suspension off a donor chassis would be the easiest way... just need to find one with 50/50 travel and a good spring rate which could be tricky.

edit: could you take the coilover setup off a coily sierra and beef it up / improve on the bar design?
Author:  MrRocky [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
sticking with the leafs i was going to run slide shackles and do away with the convention style shackle, running remote resovoir shocks with adjustable swaybars and a mix of solid and nolathene bushes.

oh the gayness comment was meant for the vitara chassis suggestion
Author:  MrRocky [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
not guna run in suzuki class going to have a go in extreme
Author:  Fatzook [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
alien wrote:
edit: could you take the coilover setup off a coily sierra and beef it up / improve on the bar design?


They're not coilovers. They're struts. And a fucking terrible idea there Alien :lol:
Author:  alien [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
hahaha cmon making something off a coily fit a leafy and WORK is a challenge - i know mick is up to it =P
Author:  JrZook [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
MrRocky wrote:
.
I know the aim is not to get to flash and to keep it as simple as i can for functionality and longevity but theres not too much on offer.

Any guidance appreciated :blink:


Probs simplest coil setup would be a 3 link (or 2 link with a panhard whatever you want to call it). Still think it will provide many advantages over the leaf setup for high speed, rally type events
Author:  TryHard [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
hhaha alien love ur idea but comon its a Coily :D who wants there parts :P= :P
Author:  stocker [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
What about a SAS on a Vit Using Lux Diff's Front n Rear??? Don't know if this is a helpful suggestion or not :S
Author:  JrZook [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
MrRocky wrote:
sticking with the leafs i was going to run slide shackles and do away with the convention style shackle, running remote resovoir shocks with adjustable swaybars and a mix of solid and nolathene bushes.

oh the gayness comment was meant for the vitara chassis suggestion


Don't know how robust the sliders actually are. Quite a few mixed reports, but yes that could be a step in solving one of the associated leaf issues. On top of that I reckon a track rod and some sort of lateral axle locating device (panhard maybe) would defiantly make it a tighter, more predictable package.

Why is the vitara chassis a 'gay' suggestion. Have a look at someone who actually does some rally or speed events such as Steve. He will be able to comment on the difference between sierra and gay vit/x90 in situ.
Author:  joeblow [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
I you are considering racing, don't use leaves and don't use sliding shackles. Race vehicles have coils for the ability to tune etc.


I personaly would use a Vitara based vehicle and use independant front AND rear.

Leaves are great for load carrying etc and they have thier place. Just not in that sort of racing.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
MrRocky wrote:
ultimate gayness ^^^


good luck in your quest in polishing a turd.
Author:  TryHard [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
atari4x4 wrote:
MrRocky wrote:
ultimate gayness ^^^


good luck in your quest in polishing a turd.


Coming From VIt owner :helloo:
Author:  atari4x4 [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
TryHard wrote:
atari4x4 wrote:
MrRocky wrote:
ultimate gayness ^^^


good luck in your quest in polishing a turd.


Coming From VIt owner :helloo:


haha, good luck keeping up with my vit... :roll:
Author:  shakes [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
have you been to many races to see what setups are in the front runners and sticky beaked under them?
Author:  MrRocky [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
3k a corner just for shocks with twin turbo 6ltrs seems to be the go for most of the front runners, the patrol lwb wagons seem to be the best bang for buck out of the lot of them. I know the independant susp on all 4 corners is prob the pick of the lot but we are talking about a 3k suzuki not a 200k buggy
Author:  alien [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
talk to the guys who built this:
Image

Image

Image

http://www.proformance.com.au/race_truck.htm
Author:  MrRocky [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
MrRocky wrote:
3k a corner just for shocks with twin turbo 6ltrs seems to be the go for most of the front runners, the patrol lwb wagons seem to be the best bang for buck out of the lot of them. I know the independant susp on all 4 corners is prob the pick of the lot but we are talking about a 3k suzuki not a 200k buggy
Author:  MrRocky [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
you think i would be better getting a kit
like this http://www.rocky-road.com/coil.html
Author:  Teracis [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
MrRocky wrote:
you think i would be better getting a kit
like this http://www.rocky-road.com/coil.html


Did you see the pictures of shep in his front yard on the right hand side of that page :lol:
Yes I know it's not really shep but it instantly reminded me of his front yard wheeling thread!
Author:  joeblow [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
MrRocky wrote:
you think i would be better getting a kit
like this http://www.rocky-road.com/coil.html


you are kidding yes?........for a race vehicle?
Author:  MrRocky [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
obviously not in standard guise, any other suggestions that dont involve the response "use a vitara"
Author:  atari4x4 [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: coil conversion VS leaf suspension
MrRocky wrote:
obviously not in standard guise, any other suggestions that dont involve the response "use a vitara"


Use a Grand Vitara :finger:
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