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Wt rear diff or stay Nt
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Author:  86slowsierra [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Wt rear diff or stay Nt
hey kids
im wondering whats the point would be in putting wide track diffs in the rear of my narrow track?

i will be wt-ing the front - for clearance issues; but im thinking i might keep the rear nt so i can ride the ruts a bit better/higher.
i also dont see the point in air lockers in the rear.

Thoughts?
Author:  monley [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
On the week end, a LWB N/T on 30's unlocked, had a crack at a really rutted out hill and got over half way up. Now on that same hill a SPOA SWB w/t with a rear locker only got 1/4 of the way, up cus he was a bit to wide and kept falling into the rut. Where as the N/T sort of stayed on the high part in between the 2 ruts. So stay with N/T diff IMO after seeing that, if i was to get a LWB N/T i would keep it on N/T diffs.
Author:  SierraDan [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
Disagree. WT both ends.
Author:  shep [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
wt front and rear=awesome
Author:  joel [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
monkey wrote:
On the week end, a LWB N/T on 30's unlocked, had a crack at a really rutted out hill and got over half way up. Now on that same hill a SPOA SWB w/t with a rear locker only got 1/4 of the way, up cus he was a bit to wide and kept falling into the rut. Where as the N/T sort of stayed on the high part in between the 2 ruts. So stay with N/T diff IMO after seeing that, if i was to get a LWB N/T i would keep it on N/T diffs.

monkey thats the worst most bullshit comparo ive read on here yet.
that doesnt take into account driver ability, tires, lines chosen, engine condition etc

the real answer is, do you want a fair amount of work for a little bit more width?
and IMO why bother doing the front if your not doing the rear?
i had a n/t lwb, now i have a w/t lwb, and i wouldnt go back to a n/t if i had the choice.


also your thought pattern is flawed, you can stay out of ruts in a w/t or any axle setup, just dont drive in the ruts, you dont have to do any mods for that just turn the wheel and point the car.
Author:  monley [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
joel wrote:
monkey wrote:
On the week end, a LWB N/T on 30's unlocked, had a crack at a really rutted out hill and got over half way up. Now on that same hill a SPOA SWB w/t with a rear locker only got 1/4 of the way, up cus he was a bit to wide and kept falling into the rut. Where as the N/T sort of stayed on the high part in between the 2 ruts. So stay with N/T diff IMO after seeing that, if i was to get a LWB N/T i would keep it on N/T diffs.

monkey thats the worst most bullshit comparo ive read on here yet.
that doesnt take into account driver ability, tires, lines chosen, engine condition etc

the real answer is, do you want a fair amount of work for a little bit more width?
and IMO why bother doing the front if your not doing the rear?
i had a n/t lwb, now i have a w/t lwb, and i wouldnt go back to a n/t if i had the choice.


also your thought pattern is flawed, you can stay out of ruts in a w/t or any axle setup, just dont drive in the ruts, you dont have to do any mods for that just turn the wheel and point the car.


That's why i said IMO :roll: At the end of the day it all comes down to what you sort of terrain you drive right?

Image

The short wheel base only got to where that long log is, on the left hand side of the rut.

Image


BTW the LBW had a a 1liter, no gearing and or lockes :roll:
Author:  joel [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
Author:  TryHard [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
end of the day its the driver lol lockers gearing helps sure but if u cant pick lines you will only get your self into trob my vote would be vote WT front and rear slightly wider = more stable ..
Author:  want33s [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
NT ... WT.. blah blah....
You CAN NOT compare the AWESOMENESS of a LWB to any SWB. :wink:
Author:  MrRocky [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
w/t rear n/t front gives you more advantages but takes some getting used to offroad.
Author:  shep [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
stick to the gay cars monkey
Author:  monley [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
shep wrote:
stick to the gay cars monkey


Sorry boss! I'll get back in my box of bent diffs now! :lol: :helloo:
Author:  86slowsierra [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
MrRocky wrote:
w/t rear n/t front gives you more advantages but takes some getting used to offroad.


:P.
the reason small cars are awesome is because they stay out of the ruts. i would like to maintain this.

wt front helps to get the rubber away from the headlights + air lockers front and chrome stuff.

but the back; i can tub the shit out of. this would then lift the back out of the ruts and provide better traction.
Author:  zook83 [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
86slowsierra wrote:
hey kids
im wondering whats the point would be in putting wide track diffs in the rear of my narrow track?

i will be wt-ing the front - for clearance issues; but im thinking i might keep the rear nt so i can stay out of the ruts a bit better.
i also dont see the point in air lockers in the rear.

Thoughts?


could save all the hassle and buy a wt :crazy: lol
Author:  86slowsierra [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
joel wrote:

also your thought pattern is flawed, you can stay out of ruts in a w/t or any axle setup, just dont drive in the ruts, you dont have to do any mods for that just turn the wheel and point the car.


in my experience, not the best, being in the ruts is often the best place to be.
Author:  86slowsierra [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
zook83 wrote:
86slowsierra wrote:
hey kids
im wondering whats the point would be in putting wide track diffs in the rear of my narrow track?

i will be wt-ing the front - for clearance issues; but im thinking i might keep the rear nt so i can stay out of the ruts a bit better.
i also dont see the point in air lockers in the rear.

Thoughts?


could save all the hassle and buy a wt :crazy: lol


am i?
where is all the hassle?
not that it is relevant but i have all the parts i need to do a full wt conversion.
and the work load is about the same as installing a body lift.

also if i bought a wt i'd lose my nt spring spacing ie less flex.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
I don't mind your thinking at all 86...

WT and cromo the front, but I don't think there's really any good reason to WT the rear.

The key, as you have figured, is keeping the minimum possible distance between the insides of the rear tyres. That's where the 13.5" tyred, 4" BS rimmed cars are winning on the big ruts in the club.

The reasoning for WT is the parts availability, but it's a moot point for the rear - the only real bolt on strength upgrade for WT is cromo rear axles from calmini, which apparently are made of cheese.

Sure there's some disc conversions for WT, but that's no big deal.

You aren't the only guy in Vic building WT front NT rear..... *ahem*AJ...*ahem*

Steve.
Author:  SierraDan [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
86slowsierra wrote:
MrRocky wrote:
w/t rear n/t front gives you more advantages but takes some getting used to offroad.

the reason small cars are awesome is because they stay out of the ruts. i would like to maintain this.

Or the weight? and the wheelbase? and the diff clearance on larger tyres?

Just a thought..
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
MrRocky wrote:
w/t rear n/t front gives you more advantages


Please explain why you believe this - It's contrary to engineering practice and my experience.

Steve.
Author:  joel [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
86slowsierra wrote:
joel wrote:

also your thought pattern is flawed, you can stay out of ruts in a w/t or any axle setup, just dont drive in the ruts, you dont have to do any mods for that just turn the wheel and point the car.


in my experience, not the best, being in the ruts is often the best place to be.

your first post was all about staying outta the ruts? :helloo:
just do it and if it doesnt feel right throw the w/t in the rear as well.
Author:  MrRocky [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
Gwagensteve wrote:
MrRocky wrote:
w/t rear n/t front gives you more advantages


Please explain why you believe this - It's contrary to engineering practice and my experience.

Steve.


I have run only rear spacers for years now and whilst this isnt w/t n/t the reasoning behind it is the same. The narrow front provides traction over a given area and generally stays out of the ruts while the rear generates the same amount of traction but covers a wider track. Some stability is sacrificed but it gets you further having a difference in front and rear track. I have found this to work well in the conditions here in w.a. as monkey posted above but tracks are quite different over in the west compared with what u guys have over east.
sorry my explanation is a bit dim its hard to put it into words

--I--I--
-I----I-
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
MrRocky wrote:
The narrow front provides traction over a given area and generally stays out of the ruts while the rear generates the same amount of traction but covers a wider track. Some stability is sacrificed but it gets you further having a difference in front and rear track.


This is 100% true, but what is the advantage in having the rear wider than the front rather than the other way around?

wider front= more tyre clearance for steering lock, tighter steering radius....

There is actually a formula for determining track width front to rear and it implies that wider rear is only advisable with a long wheelbase/ low COG (which is why it can work on trucks and supercars) but for the rest of us wider front than rear makes for better drivability.

We had a club member that temporarily ran the rear of his uber custom feroza 4" wider than the front. apparently it scared him so badly on dirt he very quickly widened the front to match the rear.

I'm all for a wider front than rear.

Steve.
Author:  jimbo_jones [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
want33s wrote:
NT ... WT.. blah blah....
You CAN NOT compare the AWESOMENESS of a LWB to any SWB. :wink:


yes but a LWB with nt spacing on wt diffs is a hole nother level of AWESOMENESS!!!! 8)
Author:  86slowsierra [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
joel wrote:
86slowsierra wrote:
joel wrote:

also your thought pattern is flawed, you can stay out of ruts in a w/t or any axle setup, just dont drive in the ruts, you dont have to do any mods for that just turn the wheel and point the car.


in my experience, not the best, being in the ruts is often the best place to be.

your first post was all about staying outta the ruts? :helloo:
just do it and if it doesnt feel right throw the w/t in the rear as well.


:oops: haha. yeah i did say that. i meant to say ride the ridges of the ruts.
i'll edit my first post.
i think i will just wt the front. lets see what happens hey.

wheres fatzook? i need perches.
Author:  86slowsierra [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
SierraDan wrote:
86slowsierra wrote:
MrRocky wrote:
w/t rear n/t front gives you more advantages but takes some getting used to offroad.

the reason small cars are awesome is because they stay out of the ruts. i would like to maintain this.

Or the weight? and the wheelbase? and the diff clearance on larger tyres?

Just a thought..


i recon it's all of the above.
Author:  neofitou [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
whatever you do, keep the tires as close to the chasis as possible, I had NT diffs, with spacers, but my wheels were really backspaced.

Like Steve said, cars in the club have the 13.5 inch wide 35" tires but I could out drive the 34" narrow tires on WT (IE STEVIEG) sometimes due to how narrow I was, even though I was on 31s, because I straddled the ruts.

absolutely, the best option (for VIC anyway) is to to go as wide (outside) and narrow (inside) and as low as you can.

Like Greg's hairdresser's physiotherapist's car
Image
(steves pic)
Author:  alien [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
Author:  ajsr [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
wt front and keep the rear nt.

besides Ive never seen a sierra roll over backards , but plenty rolling forwards hence keeping the front as the wide end
Author:  SierraDan [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
ajsr wrote:
wt front and keep the rear nt.

besides Ive never seen a sierra roll over backards , but plenty rolling forwards hence keeping the front as the wide end

You havent looked hard enough :D
Author:  turbo_deo [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wt rear diff or stay Nt
:helloo:
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