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Battery Usage
https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27255		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Christian [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:46 am ]
Post subject:  Battery Usage
went to start the GV this morning and all i got was one turn over then clicking noises. im guessing the battery is dead. which is a coincidence seeing as i just installed an 360w amp into my car last weekend.

is it possible that due to all the short trips (less than 15min) i do in the car every day the alternator doesnt have a chance to recharge the battery? or seeing as the battery is ~5 years old now it was just time for a new one?

just wondering if i need to put a switch on the accessory wire to the amp so i can turn off unless im doing longer trips

will be getting a new battery anywhos just wondering if i should bother putting a switch on it or not?
Author:  sstteevvee [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
The amp should have an accessory feed which turns it on and off anyway
Author:  Lockie666 [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Sounds like your battery needs replacing. Go into a battery place and get them to load test it for you, usually its free
Author:  Christian [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
yeah its wired up so that when then radio comes on with accessory feed so does the amp.

so its probably just the battery?
Author:  eXc450 [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
clicking noise could also be a stuck starter. It does sound like batter though.

You can test the battery yourself with a Mutlitmeter - put it on DC volts, it should read around 12v. If it is much less, then it is flat (or dead)

Once you have it around 12v (charge if need be), get someone to turn over the car while you watch the voltage, if it drops below 10v your battery is most likely stuffed.
Author:  Scrawny [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Usual lifespan of a battery is around 4 yrs so you've done well out of that one.
Author:  whincup [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
360W is only ~ 30A maximum, which even a sierra alternator could handle... i also say check the battery.
Author:  Christian [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
replaced battery, car now starts a shed load quicker than it ever used too!

cheers all
Author:  fordem [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Christian wrote:
is it possible that due to all the short trips (less than 15min) i do in the car every day the alternator doesnt have a chance to recharge the battery? or seeing as the battery is ~5 years old now it was just time for a new one?


Most alternator equipped vehicles will replenish the "starter drain" within I'd say 3~5 mins - this is based on watching the ammeter peak and drop back after starting.

I can also confirm, as can anyone living in the Caribbean, that repeated short trips of less than 15 minutes have negligible impact on battery life - that's all some of us do.

As the others have said ~5 years - just buy a new battery.
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
MY BATTERY VOLTAGES taken on a cheap multimeter.

I'm thinking battery is a problem, do these numbers suggest that or charging issue?
My headlights get brighter on longer trips.
At idle, with lights on, indicators seem to dull the tail lights on and off.
Car still starts every morning, but not as instantly as it used to.
Battery is of unknown age lead acid type (I've had it 3 years plus previous owner)
Am deciding I may get an Optima, but tight budget means wanting to be sure it is needed.

After parked overnight 12.38V
Low beam on 11.80V
Hi beam & spots on 11.60V

Cold idle 14.26V
Low beam on 14.16V
Hi beam & spots on 13.80V
Hi Beam, spots & Air con 11.80V
Then 11.70V
Then 11.60V
Then 11.50V

At warmer idle 13.90V
Revved to 14.20V
Air Con, Hi & spots on 11.95V
Then 11.90V
Then 11.80V

Rechecked battery with engine off 12.40V

Checked when keying starter dropped to 10.40V to 10.80V

Idle figures each start at over 14.00 V

\
Author:  droverdave [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
how much current do your spots and head lights draw?

figure out how much current you reckon you are using with everythign on.

with engine running, and all your stuff on, alternator should still be keeping it around the 13V.

Even if the battery is stuff, the alternator should still be charging at 13-14V with engine running.
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Stock head lights plus 2 x 100 watt spotties.
When revved or higher idle, readings are between 13 and 14.2V
Drop down below 13 at idle with stuff on.
Fan belt seems ok.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Alternator looks to be the problem there Chris, not so much the battery. My EF/EL alt will hold 14.5v with all lights etc on.

Steve
Author:  droverdave [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
yer it looks like the alternator is still working, but maybe a little sad.

100 watt x 2 = 200/12 = 16 amps.

normal headlights are around 55w i think thats another 8amps

thats only 24 amps, pluss whatever to run your car, maybe another 5. thats 30amps total or so.

whats the alternator rated at? have you got an charge light hooked up? (battery light on the dash)
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
I may try that spare alt you gave me Steve.

Second test

Engine warm

Idle with nothing on 13.90V
Medium revs 13.90V

Idle with low beam 12.90V
Medium Revs 13.70V

Idle with Hi beam and spotties 12.14V
Medium revs 13.40V

Idle with Hi,spots & air con 11.90V
Medium revs 12.50V
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Battery warning light exists, it has never gone on, I assume its connected.

Mulling over a Falcon upgrade, but that is another day.
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
MANY THANKS GUYS

I may still decide to get an optima battery if I can get a good price,
if the spare alternator charges well enough.
I can get my alt reconditioned while using the spare if needed too.
Author:  Matthew [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Dan has pretty good prices on optimas.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Don't bother with a reco alternator. It's a waste of money- the stock alternator isn't sized for accessory loads, it's just big enough to run the standard car.

Optimas are awesome, but they are just a nice maintenance free battery with very low internal resistance. They aren't a fix for a too-small alternator

Before you spend any more money on your charging system, go to jaycar and buy a clamp meter. They're about $130 for a 600A rated one which also includes a K type thermocouple for proper temp measurement. With a clamp meter, you can properly measure alternator output. I'd be surprised if the stock alt can deliver over about 25A at idle. Your car draws more current than that, which is why volts are dropping.

I don't think you'll see over 46A out of a stock vitara alt- that's the most I could ever get out of mine. That's 550w of power- you're car will exceed that with all your lights on.

Steve
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Haven't spent any money yet :)
I research hard before I do that.

So it could be that my alternator is as good as it can be,
so it may be fine to leave it in, and carry the spare.
Don't wish to change alternator unnecessarily, as its a pain to get at.

Not worried about niggly issues at low speeds,
just concerned about reliability, as auto = pain to start if something does die.

Not doing the Simpson this year, but will still be away from civilization a bit on some planned trips.
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Matthew wrote:
Dan has pretty good prices on optimas.

Have already PM'd him, see what he can do.
My battery is old and lead acid, would like a more off road able battery.
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
PS.
When I first got the Vit I noticed it had a battery water indicator window.
According to the colour it was needing water badly,
one cell was very low, the rest were only down a tad.
I just topped up with tap water on got on with life :)


I'm thinking for peace of mind,
รก new battery and carry the spare alternator sounds best.
And make sure all connections are clean and tight,
which I did about 2 years or so ago after topping up battery.
Author:  royce [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
For the sake of what you want to achieve and your budget, lets alter your testing.

As youve seen, the stock alternator does bugger all at low revs, totally ignore the figures you get with the the lights on and off at idle as it doesnt matter yet.

2 tests that matter there is the parked overnight figure of 12.38v, thats a bit low and a good battery will show 12.8 (remember 12.0 is about 50% capacity) and the cranking figure of 10.4 to 10.8 is pretty good, G16 dont need a lot of current to kick over so a reduced capacity battery still gets along ok.

So some further tests I would like to see

Go for a long drive, with as much stuff turned OFF as possible, we want to see more than 14 volts at the battery at more than 2000rpm at the end of it, 14.4 would be perfect and then at least 12.8 at the battery after an hour of sitting. if you have a battery charger charge it up with this instead if you want and then next long trip look for 14.4 just to make sure the alternator is able to get it there.
Then park it up and disconnect the battery for at least overnight, 24 hours would be better and then test the voltage, we want to see as close to 12.8 as we can, if we get a big improvement here it might mean some stuff is draining the battery while it sits.

If your meter can measure current up to 10amp we could also measure the draw from the battery with everything off there but its not as important as getting as much charge in teh battery as possible to see if it holds.

If those tests indicate the battery is on its way out then decide which way you want to go, Optimas are good but I seriously think its overkill for you, hell the last battery in my vit went more than 6 years, got a bit slow on a 40 degree day after idling with teh aircon on for ages so I replaced it, still worked ok.
I think an upgraded alternator (for faster charging on short and night time trips) and a decent (Century or Exide) conventional battery is a better option.
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Thanks Royce, appreciated.
Will do more tests before spends.
Have put spare alternator into the back car.
Definately want a new battery knowing its history.
Was run out of water at least once.
Amazing how well it has lasted.
110 alternator is already on my to do list,
but only if I run out of spare Vit ones.
Nothing has to be perfect, as long as it can be relied on.
Optima battery may not be much more than a good auto shop battery, yet,
I may be lucky
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
You're not that lucky. Optimas are dear even at cost.

Steve
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
OK first part of test done,

after 1/2 hr drive,
charged at 14.10V idle and 14.20V at about 3000rpm

after 1 hr drive idle was 14.15V and 3000rpm was also 14.20V

Battery voltage after turn off was 13.30V

Now to wait and hour for next test
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Gwagensteve wrote:
You're not that lucky. Optimas are dear even at cost.

Steve

Best price on ebay so far is $225 delivered for the size I think I want.
Tho I prefer to deal with club members of course.
More research into alternatives is needed.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OPTIMA-D51-B ... 460981402d
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
12.83V after an hour sitting.

I disconnect now, it will get about 20 hours before I need car again.


Back in here tomorrow
Author:  Built4thrashing [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Ive got a good battery here if you need one to get you by......or i can get you a price from one of our suppliers on an Optima. What one you keen on? D34?
Author:  christover1 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery Usage
Built4thrashing wrote:
Ive got a good battery here if you need one to get you by......or i can get you a price from one of our suppliers on an Optima. What one you keen on? D34?

I believe a D51 is what I need, but not sure exactly.
They are closer to my price range, and approximately same size as my stocker.
A price would be appreciated on both, just in case.
PM if you prefer.
I'll let you know if I need a loaner thanks.
Thanks.
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