[TheOtherLeft]

I was wondering what would make a good brake setup? It's kinda pie-in-the-sky but good theory.

As people install modified brake setups, eg subaru boosters, Vitara discs on Sierras etc, what features are you looking for?

- Brake fade can be reduced be vented disc, or even slotted for extreme cases

- Do you prefer long pedal travel? My partner prefers really short pedal travel whilst I prefer medium travel.

- What kind of pedal "feel" do you like?

- Discs all around is a no-brainer.

- Are there benefits of larger diameter discs?

- Are there benefits of larger calipers/pads?

- Any other factors on what makes better brakes?

[alien]

for me its about stopping fast without the brakes locking up.... there is such a thing as being "over braked"... obviously fade and other factors enter into that if you're driving it like you stole it so an increase in braking capacity may be required for some.

i prefer a medium amount of pedal travel... my dad's GTI golf has about 2" of brake pedal and its just not enough... its great if you're racing it around, but day-to-day driving the pedal is too sensitive - but after a few days of driving it you adapt and its fine.

i ran vitara calipers and rotors on the front of my sierra for a few years... it didnt stop any faster cos it was still being driven by the same booster etc, but there was little to no fade in the brakes... especially seeing as they were vented and slotted rotors.

IMO pad choice and fresh brake fluid is the cheapest and best "upgrade" one can do.

[TheOtherLeft]

alien wrote:

for me its about stopping fast without the brakes locking up.... there is such a thing as being "over braked"...

What is being over-baked?

I thought if you could lock up your brakes it meant the brakes are good but your tyres don't have enough traction, ie worn, too hard compound, wet roads etc.

Also if your rear brakes locked up first then your brake bias was wrong???

[Fatzook]

Inadequate suspension can also lead to brake lock ups.

[buzbox]

TheOtherLeft wrote:

alien wrote:

for me its about stopping fast without the brakes locking up.... there is such a thing as being "over braked"...

What is being over-baked?

[quote]

My last fast car was, You either lock up or with semi slicks on do endo's

To me decent brakes means quality parts. Not no name brand stuff. I want a decresed stopping distance, reduction in brake fade and instant pedel feel. From my experience I prefer standard sized slotted rotors, decent brake pads and braided brake lines.

[TheOtherLeft]

Fatzook wrote:

Inadequate suspension can also lead to brake lock ups.

How so? Springs not maintaining contact with the road? Old shocks leading to too much oscillations?

[royce]

alien wrote:

for me its about stopping fast without the brakes locking up.... there is such a thing as being "over braked"... obviously fade and other factors enter into that if you're driving it like you stole it so an increase in braking capacity may be required for some.

i prefer a medium amount of pedal travel... my dad's GTI golf has about 2" of brake pedal and its just not enough... its great if you're racing it around, but day-to-day driving the pedal is too sensitive - but after a few days of driving it you adapt and its fine.

i ran vitara calipers and rotors on the front of my sierra for a few years... it didnt stop any faster cos it was still being driven by the same booster etc, but there was little to no fade in the brakes... especially seeing as they were vented and slotted rotors.

IMO pad choice and fresh brake fluid is the cheapest and best "upgrade" one can do.

This is everything not to pay attention to when talking about upgrading brakes

Unless you are unable to get or keep them in their proper operating temperature there is no such thing as being overbraked, overboosted making them sensitive maybe but nobody could ever say nah me rotors and pads are too big

brakes arent 'driven by the booster, they are driven by the dickhead pushing the pedal, the booster just makes it easy for the weak and frail that cant push a pedal and think the bigger brakes make no difference (which can be true if your tyres or suspension suck so much the weight transfer unloads the tyres too easilly)

Vented, drilled, slotted rotors will do stuff all for your outright oh shit where did that truck come from stopping ability, but will help in being able to do that a lot of times in a row without fade, suspension and tyres do more for stopping ability than you would think

[youda]

even tiny brakes can lock the wheels, they just cant slow you down under any load for a long time. bigger brakes have better heat disapation so they can brake for longer under load with less heat buildup and very little brake fade. personally unless your towing something rather heavey down a big range or somewhere with lots of stop start your stock brakes should be fine. slotted rotors arent a bad idea if it gives you piece of mind.

[atari4x4]

youda wrote:

even tiny brakes can lock the wheels, they just cant slow you down under any load for a long time. bigger brakes have better heat disapation so they can brake for longer under load with less heat buildup and very little brake fade. personally unless your towing something rather heavey down a big range or somewhere with lots of stop start your stock brakes should be fine. slotted rotors arent a bad idea if it gives you piece of mind.

what about when running larger than stock tyres?

[BlueSuzy]

atari4x4 wrote:

youda wrote:

even tiny brakes can lock the wheels, they just cant slow you down under any load for a long time. bigger brakes have better heat disapation so they can brake for longer under load with less heat buildup and very little brake fade. personally unless your towing something rather heavey down a big range or somewhere with lots of stop start your stock brakes should be fine. slotted rotors arent a bad idea if it gives you piece of mind.

what about when running larger than stock tyres?

Ever heard of gears? They make your car go slower downhill. I drive down one every day. I only have to touch the brakes for the tossers who brake all the way down..

[Rhinoman]

Brake balance is one important thing to consider, if you want more powerful brakes then you need to uprate front and rear or its gong to be worse than it was before. Most SJs that run rear discs also run a bias valve, all that does is restrict the flow of fluid to the rears to reduce the power to what they were before.
I went bigger front calipers and rear discs on my Vit and then had to uprate the master cylinder because I got too much pedal travel. I now run LWB brakes front and rear because I couldn't get the park brake to work properly on the (Ford) rear calipers.
You should also remember that when you lift or lower a vehicle you change the weight transfer under braking which also messes with the brake balance a little.

[youda]

BlueSuzy wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

youda wrote:

even tiny brakes can lock the wheels, they just cant slow you down under any load for a long time. bigger brakes have better heat disapation so they can brake for longer under load with less heat buildup and very little brake fade. personally unless your towing something rather heavey down a big range or somewhere with lots of stop start your stock brakes should be fine. slotted rotors arent a bad idea if it gives you piece of mind.

what about when running larger than stock tyres?

Ever heard of gears? They make your car go slower downhill. I drive down one every day. I only have to touch the brakes for the tossers who brake all the way down..

Yes i have herd of gears, but if i want to maintain any reasonable sort of speed (ie 50-60km) so i dont hold up traffic i use second gear and just apply the brakes a little when the rpm gets high.Also note that i said it would have to be a big range with a load ie Towing. Dont assume people dont know what they are talking about. I was just trying to show one situation where larger brakes would be possibly more appropriate.

[BlueSuzy]

^Sorry, Long night at work last night

You are fine then, You will rarely need brakes if your towing also when you drive to the conditions.

If you get brake fade, You are pushing the brakes too hard, relying on them too much. Need to drive slower, in a gear suitable when towing or when fully loaded.

I understand if people are driving slow fully loaded trailers etc. Its the new age volvoeverycarnow drivers i get the shits with. The only road i go to work with now, Main road, We get them all the time. No F' Idea.
I have lost count on how many cars i have smelt burning brakes, and its only a short downhill run.


On another note, Braided brakelines should give you a 'tiny' bit more pressure to the calipers as the lines dont expand like normal lines.

[buzbox]

BlueSuzy wrote:

On another note, Braided brakelines should give you a 'tiny' bit more pressure to the calipers as the lines dont expand like normal lines.

Perhaps because the rubber lines were old and do expand more with age, but I did notice, not a big difference but a noticable difference by changing from rubber to SS braided.

In my opinion, brake hoses are one of the most important perishable parts that no one thinks about until it's too late. So I suppose I should make a mention that when you change your engine oil or at least when you replace the pads, you should check your brake lines for nicks splits or damage. Replacement hose's arn't too expensive and can be made up at what ever length you like at most hydraulic shops or a decent brake specialist.

[Ben_Sierra]

royce wrote:

suspension and tyres do more for stopping ability than you would think

This times a million.

When I had 20-year-old, stock, sagged-to-the-bumpstops springs and leaky, shitty, old factory shocks in my Sierra, it was terrible under brakes. Just about felt like the rear tyres were lifting off of the road.

New springs, new shocks, braking improved by miles...

[whincup]

with my sierra, brake pedal goes 3/4 the way to the floor without doing anything, then after that its about an inch between not braking and locked up. besides the couple of inch of free play in the pedal, i love the feel of it. in terms of doing a proper brake upgrade, what would i need to do to get a firm pedal with not a whole not of travel?

Edit: and yes, i know the free play is a bit of air in the lines...