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Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
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Author:  bob9909 [ Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
Hey all, I know I have been asking for a lot of help since I got here, but I do really appreciate all the time and effort people have been putting in to help me out, as I am pretty new to all this.

Well, in my last thread people suggested I re time the engine, so I picked up an overly expensive timing gun from super cheap (seriously $80 for what looks like a $20 one of ebay? god damn my impatience :S)

I hook everything up and warm up the car, reading timing at idle was spot on at 8btdc, so I have loosed the distributor and adjusted it to around 14btdc at idle. But I dont quite know where to go from there, I assume I should also be adjusting it a higher revs but not sure what revs and what timing I should be aiming for. I'm also unsure how to get it to keep the timing as it seems to reset itself, someone told me something about disconnecting the vacuum line but I don't fully understand.

If someone could clarify what the procedure is for adjusting the timing and what I have to do with the vacuum line I would much appreciate it :)

One last thing I was hoping someone could describe to me is the pinging sound when the timing is wrong, I guess I'm not totally sure what it is and that makes it a little hard to tell if it is too advanced.

Sorry if I am trying to do things a little too complicated, but if you could just point me in the right direction I would appreciate it :)

Cheers
Author:  royce [ Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
pinging is a rattle sound, like a heap of small people with small hammers belting the crap out of your pistons trying to get out, usually when you are accelerating heavy at lower revs

doesnt matter what revs you adjust the timing at the curve will always be the same, just fiddle till you get the best running, some engines ping at 8 degree, some ping at 12, some run better at 10 than 12 even though they dont ping
Author:  oozuk [ Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
you should be disconnecting the vacumme line from the carb to the distributor vacumme advance if you don't do this it will give you a false reading of extra timing advance.

Start the engine with the vacumme line off and plugged off, check and set you timing at idle speed, adjust you ignition timing to suit and re-connect the vacumme advance and your done, i wouldn't be running any more that 10-12 deg BTDC but that's just me, if it's not pinging then fair enough
Author:  bob9909 [ Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
Thanks for the replys, I have it running around 10-11 at the moment, bit between the lines, but I didn't disconnect the vacuum line to test, I'll re do it tomorrow :)

Still not entirely sure about the pinging, I don't think it is, but at the same time the car is so noisy (soft top is off) it is hard to tell to my untrained ears. But I think it is right, power seems to be maybe a little better.

Thanks again guys :)
Author:  youda [ Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
what fuel will you be running. 91 ron unleaded 10-12 is the most i would run. my favourite is 13-14 with 95-98 ron fuel.
Author:  bob9909 [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
Hey, sorry, missed your post youda, I'm running 95 ron premium, haven't actually seen 98 at the stations I go to, but might just not be looking hard enough, don't think I could afford it anyway.

I have the timing set at 9-10 btdc at the moment but I just can't tell if it is pinging or not, I really need someone who knows what they are listening for to help me out I think. I swear it is making that rattling sound now, but I swear it also does at stock timing so I think I might not be hearing right :S

Thing is, it does feel better with the advanced timing and the old engine really needs the extra power, I just don't want to wreck it, and if it actually isn't pining I would like to try a bit more timing advance.
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
may need the tappet's adjusted if it was doing it before.......
Author:  shiv [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
will tappets make a similar noise like like pinging if there not adjusted right?

cause i got a rattle that i thought was pinging (sounds like big washes vibrating) but i only here it when the engines under load in 4th and 5th mostly
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
shiv wrote:
will tappets make a similar noise like like pinging if there not adjusted right?

cause i got a rattle that i thought was pinging (sounds like big washes vibrating) but i only here it when the engines under load in 4th and 5th mostly


that sound's like pinging, tappet's will be there all the time....

could be piston slap to, but hard to tell over a keyboard.....
Author:  shiv [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
i feel its pinging but being told its not i do what im told,

should i just drive up and down the drive way moving the advance bit by big or is there a different way? will fuel mixure play apart?
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
shiv wrote:
i feel its pinging but being told its not i do what im told,

should i just drive up and down the drive way moving the advance bit by big or is there a different way? will fuel mixure play apart?


We are talking carby??? :?

Fuel make's a big difference, 95 or + only please.....

timing light help's, I don't like telling people how I do it, I've had a lot of time on car's & can set timing by scene of smell.... :roll:

What fuel do you run????
Author:  shiv [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
yes has a weber 32/36 carby. it has 91 in it at the moment but i wanna run 98 in it after that tank is empty

if its too complex, is there any tune places in the hunter valley that will have no probs tuning it?
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
shiv wrote:
yes has a weber 32/36 carby. it has 91 in it at the moment but i wanna run 98 in it after that tank is empty

if its too complex, is there any tune places in the hunter valley that will have no probs tuning it?


Come back once you stop running shit fuel, you have to remember that Suzuki eng's LOVE the GOOD stuff.... :P
Author:  shiv [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
lol so just wait till i put 98 in and go from there.
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
shiv wrote:
lol so just wait till i put 98 in and go from there.


Min 95 please......... :helloo:

you will notice the difference.... 8)
Author:  shiv [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
its different timing with higher octane fuels right?
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
shiv wrote:
its different timing with higher octane fuels right?


try fuel first....
Author:  shiv [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
Ok will do, thanks for your advice :)
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
:helloo:
Author:  FullyZooked [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
Have you got your starting and idle issues fixed yet? There is some healthy advice waiting for you in your other thread...

Get timing back to stock and get the carb sorted. We don't want you chasing your tail.
Author:  bob9909 [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
Hey, thanks for the helpful advice in the other thread.

I have reset my timing to 8btdc, replaced dizzy cap and one lead that was particularly bad as well as a spark plug that was getting a bit fouled, everything else looks good. I will check the idle circuit tomorrow morning when it has cooled down :)

Can anybody give me advice on how to change a fucked tappet? I had a friend listen and he agreed that it was the tappet. Took the top off the engine, but couldn't figure out where they were or how to change them :S

I do plan on rebuilding the whole engine, but if it isn't too big a deal I would like to be able to fix this problem now.

Anyway, thanks again. I will try and keep as many questions as possible to this thread for the moment :)
Cheers
Author:  shiv [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
I dont think its to hard to do if your got all the parts and tools
Author:  Fmoss3 [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
Just get yourself one of the Gregorys manuals, should have a step by step guide for setting your tappets (not replace :P)

As for replacing one lead and one spark plug, i'm not sure about anyone else and i'm no money bags but if you are going to replace one, you are better off just replacing all four so you know they are all new and there is no fault. also helps to keep on top of maintanence when you know they are all the same age.

x 40982 for running good fuel in small 4 cylinder rev happy motors. running anything less is a big no no.

If you replace plugs, leads, dizzy cap, button, set tappets, replace air/oil/fuel filters and run good fuel, you really shouldn't have a problem unless there is something majorly wrong with the engine.
Author:  shiv [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
^^ lol yep
Author:  bob9909 [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
thanks for the replays, I will have to have a closer look at my workshop manuals but I couldn't find anything about tappets when I looked through earlier :s

all the rest of the leads seem perfect, just one had really fucked up, not too sure why but I would say something happened to it
Author:  steak_knife [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
bob9909 wrote:
thanks for the replays, I will have to have a closer look at my workshop manuals but I couldn't find anything about tappets when I looked through earlier :s

all the rest of the leads seem perfect, just one had really fucked up, not too sure why but I would say something happened to it


try valve clearance's...
Author:  bob9909 [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
Thanks mate, that got it :D
Cheers

EDIT: actually in the manuals I have it is referred to as valve lash, but they are American manuals for the samurai that I downloaded

I've attached the valve clearance specifications I have, look right? I wouldn't imagine there would be a difference between the samurai and the sierra
Author:  zukmeista [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjusting timing, can I get some help please :)
yep thats right.
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