[kev87]

hello again. well my m16 is just about on its way, has a few miles on her but thinking i'll give it a freshen up.
but my problem is i cant find a 'rebuild kit' as such, but seperate kits.....
ive found that i can get a full gasket and bearing kit, aftermarket.
the only piston and ring kits i can find is overseas forged or dare i say it... genuine...
forged sets are roughly a $1000 and genuine are $180 per piston and $130 per ring set.....
there has to be aftermarkt piston and ring kits out there somewhere.....
can anyone help me please??

thanks heaps...

[Gwagensteve]

I can't imagine an M16 would require replacement pistons etc?

I think I'd be assessing the condition of the motor quite carefully before I went down the path of a rebuild - you're likely to spend a small fortune on a quality rebuild - far more than the replacement cost of the motor. It would be far cheaper to locate an M16 in better condition than try and rebuild one to match factory quality.

Steve.

[kev87]

its got 164k on it and for 500 including freight im not complaining. my works rang around and ive sent a dozen emails and this is the only one non vvt that i could find..... and i thought with that amount of ks going into my jim with only 60k id like it fresh.
when i get it i will be stripping it down or at least removing the head and inspecting the bores before i go any further.
im not in a real hurry to get it in there but cant find prices for worst case...

[squibby]

164k for $500 delivered sounds alright to me. It must have had a hard life if it needs a rebuild after only 164K, and Liana owners don't strike me as the kind of people who drive hard. Don't know of any rebuild kits, as already said, just put it in. Might need a new head gasket in a 100,000ks or so, but besides that I'd expect you have another 200,000k's of trouble free motoring on that engine.

[kev87]

Yeah true that haha just wanting price and availability for worst case....

[Fatzook]

Why rebuild it? If it has been serviced half properly, it will do 220-250K before needing work.

IMO Just fit it, get it running, and enjoy your cheap arse conversion until some day in the distant future when it MAY need to be cracked open for a freshen up.

[kev87]

Im saying if need be. the head will be coming off anyway. Thats the thing i dont know the history of the vehicle. i want to do at least a head gasket and seals cos itl be doing a long trip up the top end in 6 months or so.

[Fatzook]

kev87 wrote:

Im saying if need be. the head will be coming off anyway. Thats the thing i dont know the history of the vehicle. i want to do at least a head gasket and seals cos itl be doing a long trip up the top end in 6 months or so.

You are just pissing money away IMO.

The head gasket can be done with the motor in the car, almost as easily as out of the car.

Opening up a potentially perfect motor to do un-needed 'repairs' is just silly. A motor is NEVER as reliable as when it is factory built. Aftermarket parts, and services all to often come with a lower quality, or poorer fit than OEM parts and build quality.

You are getting it for a bargain price! By all means price up the 'freshen up' parts, but for the love of god, leave the motor alone untill it gives you reason to suspect it needs work.

If I were you' i'd get the motor as is, get it in the car with all new hoses, water pump etc ( servicable items) and focus on ironing out the bugs that are common with engine transplants. This should give you plenty of time before your big trip to decide if the motor is running as intended by suzuki.

[Gwagensteve]

Fatzook wrote:

You are just pissing money away IMO.

The head gasket can be done with the motor in the car, almost as easily as out of the car.

Opening up a potentially perfect motor to do un-needed 'repairs' is just silly. A motor is NEVER as reliable as when it is factory built. Aftermarket parts, and services all to often come with a lower quality, or poorer fit than OEM parts and build quality.

So much truth.

Why on earth would you take the head off just for the sake of it? You're up for a head gasket right from the start, then you should really deck the block & head if you are pernickety about getting everything spot on...

I would almost promise you that if you rebuilt now at 160K, you'll be rebuilding again before 250K, when you would have been able to run the factory motor out to 250K in the first place.

Unless you had a particular performance requirement that demanded a rebuild ( like low compression for boost) I'd never, ever pull a stock motor down. Nobody is willing to pay the $$$$ for a rebuild that goes anywhere near matching factory quality.

Steve.

[kev87]

if its out on the ground why wouldnt you at least put a gasket and seal kit through it? labour is nothing but my free time. i understand dont fix it if its not broken.
i believe in preventative maintenance. i dont know the service history. i cant just go on it being a liana and cant see it having a hard life, young ppl can and will flog whatever there in.
im going to take in what yous have said and take it as it comes.

thanks..

[Gwagensteve]

Why not investigate non-destructively - pressure test the cooling system, do a compression and leak down lest, check the bores with a endoscope, get oil analysis done... anything rather than pull the motor down for the sake of it?

Sure seals, water pump, - no problem - that's not breaking into the motor because you don't know the service history. Non destructive methods will give you plenty of information as to the service history.

If you open the motor you're going to have problems down the track.

Steve.

[kev87]

how can there be problems with repair or replace?
why are yous so against rebuilds?

[squibby]

Gwagensteve, Fatzook, all totally right as usually. Changing a head gasket is not 'preventative maintenance', it's just unneccesary maintenance and Suzuki can do it better then any of us, leave the original in until it blows.

[Fatzook]

kev87 wrote:

how can there be problems with repair or replace?
why are yous so against rebuilds?

This conversation wreaks of Bugsta. Plenty of advise saying not to do something, with plausable reason, and complete and utter resistance of all advise given.

So I'm not sure how many different ways there are to say this, so I'll just repeat myself.

You will not get a better running, more reliable engine, than a factory built one. Period! 160K is nothing, even for a motor that has been maintained to a below average level.

You can pull the head if you want, but if you are going down that road, you will need to have the head decked, new head studs, VRS, gasket at the very least, and even then, I doubt there would be any descernable difference after the work, other than for your wallet being unneccesarily lighter.

Just because something is 'easy' to do, doesn't make it a good idea. Theres preventitive maintenence, then there is what you are talking of doing.

[kev87]

And if it blows at arnham land what then. pay over 500 to the nearest town. ive built numorous engines gearboxes and diffs and none have given me problems. Seriously the point of this thread was prices.
Thankyou.

[Fatzook]

kev87 wrote:

And if it blows at arnham land what then. pay over 500 to the nearest town. ive built numorous engines gearboxes and diffs and none have given me problems. Seriously the point of this thread was prices.
Thankyou.

Well if you have that much experience with rebuilding motors, you would already know that re-ringing a motor without proper block prep is a complete waste of time and money.

And the point I was making was that you will be better off leaving the motor as it is, ie factory spec, and concentration on other things, as its more likely to be a cooling issue, or ignition issue, or fuel issue that brings your trip to an early end, rather than a moderately worn motor.

[squibby]

if you are that worried about it blowing up then go and buy an M16 with low mileage. 167,000 is sweet FA for a modern engine. I'd happily drive that across the desert then one that's been pulled apart and put together by you once already. Heck. if it had 225,000K's or something, then yeah, I'd be a bit intrepid but geeze, 167,000 it just got nice and loose. Concentrate your efforts on flushing out the coolant channels or clean out the throttle body or do something useful.

[Fatzook]

And just to be slightly helpful, it looks like the usual suppliers of rebuild parts (suzistore, suzisport etc) don't carry aftermarket parts for this motor. Perhaps try a local engine rebuilder, as they may have a supplier for VRS and rings atleast.

If you are in Brisbane, try Murray Walker Engineering . Its as good of a place as any to waste money.

22 Brennan St, Slacks Creek QLD 4127, Australia

(07) 3804 3367

[kev87]

Thankyou. ill ignore the sarcasm.

[Fatzook]

kev87 wrote:

Thankyou. ill ignore the sarcasm.

But thats the best part

[Gwagensteve]

When is a head gasket more likely to fail, at A)167,00km, B)169,000km, or C)A month after the head was off and someone was in there rooting around with head bolt torque, decking the head etc?

I vote C.

I would say you have less chance of failure in Arnhem land by leaving it alone. *Subject to some actual diagnosis*

Anyway, I'm off to change the air in my tyres. I don't know who put the air in there to start with and it's been in there for ages. There must be something wrong with it.

Steve.

[kev87]

Hmmmm just keen to keep it going. This was not the reason i posted this.
Also rooting around? Im a mechanic. I dont root around. whatever is f#cked is replaced or repaired.
Just becos its done that many ks its right to do another right?
And that you cant go past factory building. bullshit. theres parts out there that are far more superior than factory.
Guarenteed the manufacturer doesnt blueprint engines.
Just because itl be cracked open means jackshit.
Who knows what could be wrong with it. being in the suburbs it may not of even got to operarting temp. even if a grandma has owned it the rings prob arnt even beded in.
Anyways im off to do a valve cap rotation, long over due for one i think.
Peace out

[atari4x4]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Anyway, I'm off to change the air in my tyres. I don't know who put the air in there to start with and it's been in there for ages. There must be something wrong with it.

Steve.

That air is stale & will rot the insides of your tyres out, that is unless you are running tubes.

[Gwagensteve]

So are you looking for cheaper than factory, or better than factory?

Steve

[kev87]

Beside the point. i wanted to know price and availability. thats it. but its a oneway street on here so ill ask elsewhere.
Thanks.

[Gwagensteve]

kev87 wrote:

Beside the point. i wanted to know price and availability. which you received, along with some common sense thats it. but its a oneway street on here so ill ask elsewhere. and get the same answers wherever you ask the same question
Thanks.

Happy to help!

Steve.

[Fatzook]

kev87 wrote:

And that you cant go past factory building. bullshit. theres parts out there that are far more superior than factory.

Then why are you having so much trouble finding them?

Its a 1.6 shopping trolley hatchback motor from suzuki. Not a SBC or 2JZ. You will be hard pressed to find ANY aftermarket parts for that motor that are better than OEM quality.

[kev87]

Im not interested in wasting my breath and gaining keyboard skills.
Id rather keep my day job than be a keyboard worrier like yourselves.
Common sense. i do this shit for a living. i dont need to be told what i already know when it comes to fixing cars.
Ive done this to most of my cars and nothings faulted.
I asked on here simply becos youd think having a large number of members from all different places that someone would know of something out there.
Yet heroes like yous simply put us down with your google skills when it is rather simple. if you dont have an answer in direct relivance to the question like price and availability then dont bother.
Being a smart ass just turns ppl away.

[Fatzook]

Hey I tried to give you a few suggestions, but I guess you already have your mankini in a twist, so there's nothing more to say here.

Perhaps you should try the performance gurus over at redlineGTI. They can tell you how to build a fully sick performance motor, and where to get the parts from.

[kev87]

Again nothing can be said without a smart ass comment. seriously grow up mate.