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M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
https://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30600		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Glanza777 [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
Hey guys,

Have seen a few guys on here mentioning that this conversion has been carried out several times and is a great upgrade to the Jimmy's M13a (non-vvt).

unfortunately, I have failed in my extensive research to find solid information on the conversion itself AND where I can find M18's in the Brisbane area, I have however, found that these do belong in Baleno GTX's or the Liana's maybe?

If anybody would be wiling to share there knowledgeable wits I would be one of the most appreciative people you will ever meet (and I mean literally, some say, it can be almost annoying :P)
Author:  Sandez [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M18a -> 04 jimny
I can't help you out too much, but I'm pretty sure its a fair bit of effort to put a VVT engine (1.8s) into a non VVT.

Have you had a look at this link? Its a very good writeup and should answer most of your questions and show you what to do.
http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=30308
Author:  Glanza777 [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M18a -> 04 jimny
Hey bud cheers for the reply, i was hoping that maybe the M18a came out produced as a non-vvt aswell? or is this wishful thinking? :P
Author:  Fatzook [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M18a -> 04 jimny
Glanza777 wrote:
Hey bud cheers for the reply, i was hoping that maybe the M18a came out produced as a non-vvt aswell? or is this wishful thinking? :P



Early liana sports may have been non-vvt M18 :?
Author:  Glanza777 [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M18a -> 04 jimny
ok awesome ill try and see if i can gather info, thankyou!
Author:  Glanza777 [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M18a -> 04 jimny
Searching around on the net and have came up with no luck into finding anyone within brisbane selling an M18... ill make a few phone calls during the week in the hope of coming up with some prices :)
Author:  squibby [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M18a -> 04 jimny
All M18A's are VVT. Yes you can fit one to your non-VVT Jimny, but you have to fit the M18A ECU, which means extensive self-research and obtaining the Liana and Jimny manuals. You have Three plugs into your Jimny ECU, they are identical to the Plugs on the Liana M18 ECU so it would appear that you can plug it right in, but this is not the case. You have to rearrange all the pinouts on the back of the three plugs using the manuals. Now assuming you are confident enough and clever enough to sort all of that out, then it will be a walk in the park for you to wire a pair of additional new wires from your M18 ECU to the VVT solenoid. on the end of the engine.

SO it can be done, but you need to research this via the instruction manuals really, would be more productive then looking for specifics on the forum because you won't find them.

Don't forget to obtain a matching immobiliser and Key for the M18A ECU. But the ECU doesn't need to be the one that came with the engine.

If you want an easy conversion without changine your ECU then install an M16 from a Liana. The M13 ECU will run that engine. If you wanted to do a complete project then installing the M16 ECU into a pre-2005 jimny is easier too. There are less pins to rearrange, but you'll still have a few queries regarding aircon and 4x4 control.

My advice is to prioritise surety of outcome over everything else. If you get an M16A and put that in without messing with the M13 ECU you can be certain it'll run. If you mess around with ECU's you might get problems. Pre 2005 M13 Jimnys should stick to the M16 engine. there's plenty around when you start looking.
Author:  datso [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M18a -> 04 jimny
There could be 2 other options?

1. use m16a head and timing cover on m18a vvt engine with oil pressure connections blocked?.

2. block oil pathways for vvt and change camshaft to non vvt one or just get it modified with solenoid removed?.
Author:  squibby [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M18a -> 04 jimny
But you ditch VVT in favour of just having the 200cc of capacity. Plus the 1.6 is a long stroke, the 1.8 is square. Long stroke gives max torque earlier. The 1.6 is kind of a cool engine for a Jimny to be honest, I wouldn't bust a gut swapping heads around especially if you buy a donor engine in known working order. Shame to split it all apart.

plus you need two donor engines now, a 1.8 and a 1.6 is that what you are suggesting?
Author:  Glanza777 [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M18a -> 04 jimny
Squibby, you are the man! Thankyou so much for the indepth info!

Datso, that would be too much work involved and time consuming plus, its my partners jimmy so you can just imagine if I told her I'm doing that :S I could only spend a maximum of two weekends to have this project done...

I have created a poll in the first post regarding which motor suzi enthusiasts would prefer to use for a jimmy being daily driven but occasionally used for beach work/4wding ignoring the vvt side of things because, I am confident enough in doing the pin swapping for the Ecu's if need be.
Author:  squibby [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M18a -> 04 jimny
If you are confident in the pin swapping, then the M18A positively destroys the M16 all the way. The M16 might develope it's max torque lower down (in theory) the M18 probably produces more torque from the get go and all the way through the range.

If ease of installation and the cost is taken into account then the M16A is positively going to annihalate the M18A with all the troubles that go along with swapping immobilisers and ECU's to get the M18 VVT to work in your non-VVT Jimny.

It's a basic forumla. Non VVT Jimny - M16. VVT Jimny - M18.

For you my votes on the M16. There's no shame in having 200cc less when you consider the M16 is a suitable motor for 4x4 and how easy it would be for you to put one in. Besides, I challenge someone to post up their dyno run with an M16 running M13 ECU and 215/75/15 tyres. Would love to compare it with my dyno run that I posted for my M18 on M13 ECU and 215/75/15 tyres - in my 'members rises' section. I might be embarassed if it gets more power or torque :wink:
Author:  squibby [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
You can't ignore the VVT. One engine has it, one doesn't. Decide on the M16 already, not what this silly poll says. You'll regret it if you go for the M18 and the whole shebang of putting in ECU's and Immobilisers. Just have a read of O'Mileys thread in rigs. Go buy a post 2005 Jimny and stick an M18 in that.

The sierra guys have been happy with their 1.6 conversions for years and years. I'd have an M16 in my VVT if I could, get better mileage, and it's not such a distant relative to the M13 so the M13 ECU can perhaps handle it better. but only the M15 and M18 are VVT, and the M15 isn't a big enough leap for some VVT jimny owners, my jimny for example has 210kg of extra gear bolted on.
Author:  Sandez [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
I would stick with the M16A for sure, its virtually a straight out swap compared to the M18A. If you have a read through O'Malleys Jim in the Rigs section, particularly the last 2-3 pages, you'll find that no mechanic wants to touch his Jim, and its a VVT to VVT conversion. Considering your talking about swapping out ECU pins, which doesnt sound so hard in theory, when you physically have a look at the wiring loom and what you need to do, I'm sure you'll reconsider (one mistake could also mean another ECU = $$$), then you'll almost have no chance of a mechanic touching it if/when something eventually goes wrong. Unless you have deep deep pockets to pay someone to fix it at that stage, I wouldn't be considering it.

Plus your getting strong advice not to do it from someone who has already done it the easier way

It's all personal preference, but considering its not also YOUR daily driver, an M16A should be more than sufficient.
Author:  Glanza777 [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
squibby wrote:
This poll is gay. You can't ignore the VVT. One engine has it, one doesn't. Decide on the M16 already, not what this silly poll says. You'll regret it if you go for the M18 and the whole shebang of putting in ECU's and Immobilisers. Just have a read of O'Mileys thread in rigs. Go buy a post 2005 Jimny and stick an M18 in that.


I think i may have wrote it wrong :?

what i was meaning from the poll was, ignoring the fact that the m18 has VVT, which motor (m16/m18) as hole compared side-by-side (short motor), which would be better? that's what i had meant. i knew its risky fiddling and screwing around just to get the vvt/immobiliser/ecu in but, what i mean is, is it worth the extra 200cc and adding VVT to it?

BUT, as you are strongly recommending the M16 being the choice for our situation, i am sold :)

Sandez wrote:
I would stick with the M16A for sure, its virtually a straight out swap compared to the M18A. If you have a read through O'Malleys Jim in the Rigs section, particularly the last 2-3 pages, you'll find that no mechanic wants to touch his Jim, and its a VVT to VVT conversion. Considering your talking about swapping out ECU pins, which doesnt sound so hard in theory, when you physically have a look at the wiring loom and what you need to do, I'm sure you'll reconsider (one mistake could also mean another ECU = $$$), then you'll almost have no chance of a mechanic touching it if/when something eventually goes wrong. Unless you have deep deep pockets to pay someone to fix it at that stage, I wouldn't be considering it.

Plus your getting strong advice not to do it from someone who has already done it the easier way


I can completely understand why they wouldnt :S ifd anything, i would have to see the good 'ol auto elecs

Indeed it is very strong advice :youdaman: and is also high appreciated but, i am in no way trying to (i hope) come across as saying he is wrong or that its the wrong choice with the M16a, i just want to make sure that which ever decision i make is the right one :)

Sandez wrote:
It's all personal preference, but considering its not also YOUR daily driver, an M16A should be more than sufficient.


You are not wrong there my friend, hence why i wanted to gather as much info and criticism so when i make the conversion, my head doesnt go missing after it gets taken off from a shovel if something goes wrong :rambo:
Author:  datso [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
Mmm I would prefer a non VVT m18a as you can never have enough capacity but to have the headaches of O'malleys
Id rather a non vvt m16a anyday and have less grey hairs.

However I have an M18a donk with VVT and will have to work out how on earth to deactivate the VVT part somehow.
Its going to be a PITA but it cant be that difficult, Ive got some M16a camshafts, rocker cover and front timing case.

my vote for this poll M16a due to endless Very Vulgar Troubles
Author:  Glanza777 [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
datso wrote:
my vote for this poll M16a due to endless Very Vulgar Troubles


LOL! That has been the best vvt description I have ever come across! :P

Well, I am pretty much sold with the M16a, any recommendations one where to find one within Brisbane? I have been searching for the last few days but since they are out of the newish Liana's, nor very many ppl would have there motors or even wrecking one?
Author:  monley [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
I have been in/driven a m15a non-VVT and i can tell you right now, it goes better than a m18a vvt :wink:
Author:  squibby [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
monley wrote:
I have been in/driven a m15a non-VVT and i can tell you right now, it goes better than a m18a vvt :wink:


Cool. So what Car does the non-VVT M15 engine come out of? I assume you have driven/been in an M18 VVT powered Jimny too? I'll add it to the list in 'Good Tech'. As far as I know the M15A from the Swift is alwasy VVT, but not sure about the holden Cruze or any other Suzuki's yet.

By the way, here is a superb website for anyone looking to do a conversion and struggling to find engines.
http://www.suzukiwreckers.com.au/page2.php
Author:  Glanza777 [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
squibby wrote:
monley wrote:
I have been in/driven a m15a non-VVT and i can tell you right now, it goes better than a m18a vvt :wink:


Cool. So what Car does the non-VVT M15 engine come out of? I assume you have driven/been in an M18 VVT powered Jimny too? I'll add it to the list in 'Good Tech'. As far as I know the M15A from the Swift is alwasy VVT, but not sure about the holden Cruze or any other Suzuki's yet.

By the way, here is a superb website for anyone looking to do a conversion and struggling to find engines.
http://www.suzukiwreckers.com.au/page2.php



Thanks again Squibby for the recommendation! I gave them a call and these are the results:

1x M16a non-vvt, long bare motor (no manifolds or accessories)
1x frieght to Brisbane

= $1300
Author:  squibby [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
How many Km's?

If thats a low Km's then its an ok price. And how much is the freight so we can deduct that from the actual price.
Author:  Glanza777 [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
squibby wrote:
How many Km's?

If thats a low Km's then its an ok price. And how much is the freight so we can deduct that from the actual price.


Unfortunately, they didn't give me much details at all, only the prices :(

However, the price for the motor was $1100 and shipping was around $130 so, he told me between $1200-$1300 as a rough estimate
Author:  Glanza777 [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
Which in saying this is quite strange coming to think of it... Did there website say $950 for the m16a non-vvt?
Author:  squibby [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
Okay, well I paid $700 cash price for an M18A with about 80,000Kms and ALL ancilliaries still on except for the aircon pump. Make sure you get the Injectors as a minimum, you need those, but you don't need anything else.

I got quoted about $1200 for a low kms, about 20,000km M18, and I got quoted about the same for a very very low mileage M15 from a recently written off swift, I think it had abut 10,000kms.

So yours sounds a little steep maybe, but I collected mine in person. try this place,
http://newmodelwreckers.com.au/

where I got mine from. they don't strip the engines down so much.
Author:  Glanza777 [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
I actually asked how much as a long bare motor :S my bad...
I might give a try again soon acting as someone else :P

My HTC snsation doesn't like new model wreckers website so ill have to try them when i get home
Author:  squibby [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
Try these guys in Brisbane
07 5596 3844
Author:  squibby [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
Glanza777 wrote:
I actually asked how much as a long bare motor :S my bad...


I would have done the same, should be cheaper really. seems like they know the worth and they are hiking up the prices a little, or they just can't be bothered to post it and want some extra for their troubles which is fair enough i supose.
Author:  Glanza777 [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
Just called New Model Wreckers and they can have one sent to me for $870 and has 90,000km on it
Author:  monley [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
squibby wrote:
monley wrote:
I have been in/driven a m15a non-VVT and i can tell you right now, it goes better than a m18a vvt :wink:


Cool. So what Car does the non-VVT M15 engine come out of? I assume you have driven/been in an M18 VVT powered Jimny too? I'll add it to the list in 'Good Tech'. As far as I know the M15A from the Swift is alwasy VVT, but not sure about the holden Cruze or any other Suzuki's yet.

By the way, here is a superb website for anyone looking to do a conversion and struggling to find engines.
http://www.suzukiwreckers.com.au/page2.php



The details on what car it come out off are unknown to me. I think it may be a swift, but then converted to non-vvt :? Either way, the m18a had 235's and the m15a had 31's and the m15a would just run rings around the m18a 8) it felt a lot torquer down low, but if felt like it revved more freely compared to the m18a....
Author:  squibby [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
monley wrote:
squibby wrote:
monley wrote:
I have been in/driven a m15a non-VVT and i can tell you right now, it goes better than a m18a vvt :wink:


Cool. So what Car does the non-VVT M15 engine come out of? I assume you have driven/been in an M18 VVT powered Jimny too? I'll add it to the list in 'Good Tech'. As far as I know the M15A from the Swift is alwasy VVT, but not sure about the holden Cruze or any other Suzuki's yet.

By the way, here is a superb website for anyone looking to do a conversion and struggling to find engines.
http://www.suzukiwreckers.com.au/page2.php



The details on what car it come out off are unknown to me. I think it may be a swift, but then converted to non-vvt :? Either way, the m18a had 235's and the m15a had 31's and the m15a would just run rings around the m18a 8) it felt a lot torquer down low, but if felt like it revved more freely compared to the m18a....


Got it, Holden Cruze (or suzuki ignis), 2001 - 2005, M15 non-vvt and quite cheaper then an M16. I'll take some convincing that an M15 non-vvt has more torque low down then an M18 with VVT but I ain't going to argue. Like I say, there's no shame in trying out the lesser capacity engines. Might get good results and 'driveability' has to be a strong factor for deciding what engine you want. If the M15A 'feels' better to some people, then go for it, you might be happier then with the bigger engines. The M18 VVT has very good punch in 3rd and 4th gear from around 3,000 rpm. I'm not sure a smaller engine would deliver it at the same rpm, but it does feel a little strangled higher up the revs. needs more fuel higher up.
Author:  Glanza777 [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M16a/M18a -> 04 jimny
It's funny you say that Squibby, New Model Wreckers quoted me $1350 for a M15 with 20k to Brisbane...
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