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Jimny torque
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Author:  zooky08 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Jimny torque
Going to start towing a few trailers (camper and bike) soon with my Jimny. Firstly my Jimny is no were near capable ATM to even pull a trailer of any kind. Its way to gutless. I have plenty of hills around my area and I'm getting sick of going up them at 40km/h in second gear. Fuel economy sucks big time. Not sure how many liters the tank is but I get 300kms out of 32 liters.

I need some kind of low torque, my Jimny only starts to get it's power around the 3500rpm mark.
I need it around the 2000rpm mark if I'm going to be towing trailers around. I've read up about the gearing but I can't see how it's going to work with me running 215s tires. No intention of running bigger tires any time soon. Plus it will raise my rpm at 100, which I don't want I need it to be lower then 4100rpm.

Only thing I can think of is cam work, but with that be enough.
And no can't do any engine swapping as much as I want to.
Also don't want to get another 4wd.

Cheers
Author:  31zook [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
A 1.3 case might bring it back to closer to stock gearing, and a cam grind has been on my mind also... My old 1.3 was massivle torqueyer after a cam grind...
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
why can't you do an engine swap?
Author:  zooky08 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
Bloody p plate laws in qld. I know were a engine is, yes I'll do a engine swap but no I don't want to loose my license.
Can regrove is what I'm thinking of.
I do have a 1 liter case here with switch. Will that work.
Even if it get gearing back to stock, it's still going to lack or torque down low.
Author:  JrZook [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
That economy doesn't 'suck'. Personally what were you expecting? That's equal to 9.3km/L. Do you have larger tires? If you are running say 235/75, odometer will be out by ~10% so the actually economy climbs to 10.3km/L.

Why do you need the torque at 2k? The way this engine is built it produces its torque upward of 4k, keep the rpms up there and you will find the economy will also be better even towing. Small capacity, near square engine will always produce max torque at higher RPMs. Even the 1.6 isn't really happy below 3.5K.

Have you got extractors and a descent exhaust?
Author:  31zook [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
zooky08 wrote:
Bloody p plate laws in qld. I know were a engine is, yes I'll do a engine swap but no I don't want to loose my license.
Can regrove is what I'm thinking of.
I do have a 1 liter case here with switch. Will that work.
Even if it get gearing back to stock, it's still going to lack or torque down low.


Nope 100kph is 4250rpm on my Jim with 235s.

A stock one will suit it better...
Author:  zooky08 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
31zook wrote:
zooky08 wrote:
Bloody p plate laws in qld. I know were a engine is, yes I'll do a engine swap but no I don't want to loose my license.
Can regrove is what I'm thinking of.
I do have a 1 liter case here with switch. Will that work.
Even if it get gearing back to stock, it's still going to lack or torque down low.


Nope 100kph is 4250rpm on my Jim with 235s.

A stock one will suit it better...

Mine is 100kph at 4100rpm with 215s
A stock what? Wt case?

JrZook wrote:
That economy doesn't 'suck'. Personally what were you expecting? That's equal to 9.3km/L. Do you have larger tires? If you are running say 235/75, odometer will be out by ~10% so the actually economy climbs to 10.3km/L.

Why do you need the torque at 2k? The way this engine is built it produces its torque upward of 4k, keep the rpms up there and you will find the economy will also be better even towing. Small capacity, near square engine will always produce max torque at higher RPMs. Even the 1.6 isn't really happy below 3.5K.

Have you got extractors and a descent exhaust?





I'm only running 215s tires so not much of a increase. I keep reading Jimny are ment to get around the 450-500km mark. But maybe that's the vvt model Jimny. I also have a fair mount of wait on my car over a standard one.

Jimny torque is from 3500rpm and top out at 4500rpm
I really need lower torque because I live in the country. There hills every road I go around here, and the poor Jimny is dying up hills. Not that no 5th gear crap, I mean going down to second or some times third gear.
It's geting on my nerves. Don't expect much out of the engine but suprisingly a g13ba has better torque then my m13a engine.

Nah still have stock extractors and exhaust. Would that be the problem.
Author:  Mike57 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
To have higher torque at lower revs you need to have a longer stroke on the pistons. The max torque occuring at high revs is a feature of short stroke, high revving engines like the Jimny. You can bring the torque down to lower revs slightly by adding extractors (tuned correctly) but unfortunately what you are asking for is the performance of a diesel from a high revving, short stroke petrol engine. You will never get the max torque down to 2,000 rpm IMO.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
zooky08 wrote:
Bloody p plate laws in qld. I know were a engine is, yes I'll do a engine swap but no I don't want to loose my license.


but what are the chances of getting pulled over & actually having a cop pic up that it's a different block... it's not like it's going to look like a 427 big block has been shoehorned in or there is a dirty great big turbo hanging off the side of the M13.

could always restamp the M18 with the M13's engine number, the perfect crime :wink:

how much longer have you got left on your P plates?
Author:  zooky08 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
I want the torque around the 2000- 4500rpm not max out at 2000rpm
I've only ever been pulled over once in my life. But department of transport and police were pulling over p platers today and deffecting them for anything they can. Only p platers too which was shit as.
I have 20 months to go till I'm off my ps

Does the m13a and m16a look identically? Just higher block on the m16a engine.
Not sure what engine was in the liana I asked about but was $850 for complete engine
Author:  jdk81 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
atari, not so great advice in the open
Author:  zooky08 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
jdk81 wrote:
atari, not so great advice in the open

I'm not going to do that, I've already been there.
2 points is not much to mess with so not going to do anything like restamp a engine.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
jdk81 wrote:
atari, not so great advice in the open


i'll change it to italics, so you know i was taking the piss.

personally i think these P plate laws are a crock of shit, growing up with modified cars is part of being a youth. :wink:
Author:  jdk81 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
In the grand scheme of things, if you can prove you acquired the engine legally, its not that big of a deal. More of a taboo due to perceived theft etc.
People do far more dangerous things and dont bat an eye lid.

P-plate laws... idiots will still be idiots, now matter what they are driving. Think of it as natural selection. Just sucks when they take innocent people with them.
Author:  gvzookdriver [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
zooky08 wrote:
Does the m13a and m16a look identically? Just higher block on the m16a engine.
Not sure what engine was in the liana I asked about but was $850 for complete engine


From squibby engine swap - They look the same to me

Image

Image
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
^^^ that's what i was getting at, the perfect crime know one would know + he already legally owns a M13 already. :wink:
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
zooky08 wrote:

I'm only running 215s tires so not much of a increase.... I also have a fair mount of wait on my car over a standard one.

Jimny torque is from 3500rpm and top out at 4500rpm
g13ba has better torque then my m13a engine.


Firstly, your tyres are about 2" over stock, or about 8%. Put stock tyres back on it and you will be surprised how much "power" you have gained. It's the same story with every car - 33's on a hilux/patrol, 34's on a cruiser.... it feels like the torque has disappeared.

What's a "fair bit of weight"? take it over a weigh bridge so you know how close to GVM you are. My guess is you're running pretty heavily laden all the time.

A G13ba definitely, 100% doesn't have "better" torque than your jimny. It has less horsepower. A car with more horsepower at higher revs often feels like it has less torque because of the shape of the power band. G13BA's don't make their peak torque until 3500rpm either.

Do you really need whatever stuff is on the car all the time? Do you really need 215's on the car all the time? You will reap bigger gains by gearing the car back to stock and reducing weight than any performance mods you can do whilst you are on P's.

Quote:
Can regrove is what I'm thinking of.
did you mean cam regrind?

You're into a world of experimentation there. In basic terms, you will be trading off horsepower for an increase in torque by moving the power band down. However, your port and valve sizes are optimised for high rev HP, so gains are going to be small - and that's if you don't run into fuelling/timing problems in the computer. There's no point optimising torque at, say, 2500 rpm to then cruise at 4000 rpm and have a soft doughy motor - you'll have to change down just as often as you do now.

I reckon hang in there until you can engine swap. No other solution will make sense.

Steve.
Author:  zooky08 [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
By weight I mean I'm carrying 215s, arb bar, winch 3 inch of lift. So just a bit more then a stock Jimny
Yes I did mean regrind. I'll go put on stock tires and see what the difference is.
If my tires are 8% increase and 235s are 10% then a wt case should get me back to stock gearing pretty close then , is that right? Then chuck on a exhaust and extractors. That should work for me until I get of my ps.
Author:  31zook [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
Stock WT 1.3 case will be almost spot on.
Author:  monley [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
zooky08 wrote:
Does the m13a and m16a look identically? Just higher block on the m16a engine.


Good luck telling them apart once in a jimny without looking at the engine number :wink:


A WT case will give you 12% reduction in high....or you could swap to 4.3 diffs which will be just about spot on for 215's.
Author:  zooky08 [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
What Jimny are the 4.3 c&p out off?
Author:  monley [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
zooky08 wrote:
What Jimny are the 4.3 c&p out off?



VVT 05-current.
Author:  zooky08 [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
Okay then well I have bigger problems ATM that's more important then fixing my gearing.
So I'll look into it more later on

Thanks for the help guys
Author:  GRPABT1 [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
Nitrous will do the trick.......lol
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
zooky08 wrote:
Okay then well I have bigger problems ATM


in my best Pauline Hanson voice, please explain?
Author:  zooky08 [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
atari4x4 wrote:
zooky08 wrote:
Okay then well I have bigger problems ATM


in my best Pauline Hanson voice, please explain?

Read my build thread ;)
Author:  zukenutter [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
It's a Jimny, towing will always be some sort of compromise. Expect to work it hard for 400kg, and more than that is only realistic with reduction gearing of some sort.

VVT is what you need for highway speed and better torque curve.
Author:  monley [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
zukenutter wrote:
It's a Jimny, towing will always be some sort of compromise. Expect to work it hard for 400kg, and more than that is only realistic with reduction gearing of some sort.

VVT is what you need for highway speed and better torque curve.



x2 Drew's m18a struggles with a box trailer with a moto bike on the back through the hills. Mind you that's 235's stock gearing....
Author:  zooky08 [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
I'll be towing a bike on 4x7 bike trailer up a hill. not in a rush so I'll get up the hill eventually.
Author:  zukenutter [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny torque
Since swapping to 30s my ability to pull uphill has diminished but still pulls well in 4th, especially if I shift down early enough to stay in peak torque range rpm.

I haven't tried pulling the 800kg loads since swapping to the 30s and don't plan on trying, I like my diff and clutch ;)
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