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Transfer gears from LROR?
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Author:  abclarke [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Transfer gears from LROR?
Hey guys im getting ready to order my transfer gears from LROR pretty shortly but theres just one thing thats bothering me.

I know ill be getting the gear install supplement kit which includes "5 Roller Bearings, 2 Main Needle Bearings, Front Output needle Bearing" so everything is gonna be all shiny and new. But what im unsure about is when it comes to the gears...

The 5.14s are showing the following:

Image

And the 4.9s are this:

Image


To me it seems that the 4.9s are coming with more or is that just for the photo? Pretty much i just want to order what i need to have a completely new transfer case cept the case itself (bearings, seals etc). One other thing ill add, would it be a good idea to get some kind of reinforcement for the case? Like a mighty kong or something as well?

Thanks in advance as always :)
Author:  xedent [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Looks like the 5.14 just dont show the seals in the picture ! Not 100% but pretty sure they would be included!
Author:  abclarke [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Yeah they are listed as including "The complete kit is sold with input shaft, high output gear, new counter gear, counter shaft & bearings, thrust washers and gaskets. It even comes with oil and a new shifter sheet! LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY" So im thinking it might just be the picture?

Ive sent em an email about it but just wanted to ask others who have ordered the 5.14s just in case.
Author:  Rusho [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Buy a ticket in our raffle....$500 LROR voucher pompoms
Author:  Teracis [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Just remember when you rebuild it, be careful if you try to remove the small cage/needle bearing in the front end of the rear output shaft, if you destroy it and can't get it out easily you're in for a world of hurt, learn from my experience.

I've been told there is a bearing puller small enough to get it out, I think fatzook said he had one so it may be wise to ask more about it before going hard out with a screwdriver on that little bearing.

Good luck with it all, it's not that tough to do (I've done two sets of 6.5's on my driveway with no issues apart from that little bearing I destroyed the first time and then took 4 hours to remove with cold chisels, pin punches, sharpened screwdrivers and my dremel)
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
There's no reason to remove the front output support bearing in the end of the mainshaft unless you want to replace it.

Steve.
Author:  Macca52 [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
I recently fitted the 5.14 kit from LROR and you only get what is shown in the photo. You do not get bearings, only seals
Author:  stockman [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
If you order gears and a supplement kit you will get double ups of gaskets and a few seals.
I'm not sure if the upgraded front output shaft is needed on anything less then 6.5's.
Author:  SierraDan [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Its not needed on 5.14's. I've well and truely tested that out.
You will need to beef up the long mount. stock rubbers work fine, just carry a spare for piece of mind.
Author:  abclarke [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Gwagensteve - If im doing a whole rebuild itd be a good idea to replace them i assume?

Macca52 - Yeah i didnt expect to get any of the roller bearings, but you get the needle bearings id assume? The photo for the 5.14s only show 1 washer though? Do you get 1 or both?

Stockman - The supplement kit im looking at only includes the "(5 Roller Bearings, 2 Main Needle Bearings, Front Output needle Bearing)". So im guessing if i get the needle bearings with the gears thats all ill be doubling up on? And sorry if ive missed something, but what do you mean the upgraded shaft shouldnt be needed?

Dan - Yeah ill look at beefing it up i reckon, those stock mounts are fuck all anyway so ill get a few spare :D
Author:  SierraDan [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
abclarke wrote:
Gwagensteve - If im doing a whole rebuild itd be a good idea to replace them i assume?
Yep, very good idea.

Macca52 - Yeah i didnt expect to get any of the roller bearings, but you get the needle bearings id assume? The photo for the 5.14s only show 1 washer though? Do you get 1 or both?
With the gear install kit you will have what you need to install the gears.

Stockman - The supplement kit im looking at only includes the "(5 Roller Bearings, 2 Main Needle Bearings, Front Output needle Bearing)". So im guessing if i get the needle bearings with the gears thats all ill be doubling up on? And sorry if ive missed something, but what do you mean the upgraded shaft shouldnt be needed?
There is a newer shaft with a thicker selector gear bit. You won't need it. 6.5's and big tyres more likely to need it.

Dan - Yeah ill look at beefing it up i reckon, those stock mounts are fuck all anyway so ill get a few spare :D
I just welded in some 10mm and two guessets on the inside so it coldnt twist, cos thats all it does.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
abclarke wrote:
Gwagensteve - If im doing a whole rebuild itd be a good idea to replace them i assume?


You can if you want. In my own car I didn't replace it when I did my gears, and in fact I didn't replace any bearings except the ones supplied in the fitting kit ( the needle rollers for the intermediate shaft)

I took the approach that the case was in good condition when it came apart and wasn't noisy at all, so there was no reason to replace a whole bunch of stuff that clearly wasn't worn. I'm not suggesting this is "right", only what I did and it's worked fine for me - my gears have been in years with no problems.

I think you'd just have to assess what condition your case is in before it came apart. Replacing that input shaft needle roller bearing is a PITA. IT might take longer to get out than the whole rest of the job. I made a "puller" out of some cut up and welded together allen keys to get it out when I did one for a club member.

There is no "double up" if you add the supplement kit. The gears come with the needle rollers for the intermediate shaft, and the supplement kit contains the two needle rollers for the mainshaft.

The upgraded front output shaft isn't really there to be stronger (it might be.... but I don't know anyone that's broken a dog clutch), it has deeper teeth on the dog clutch so the selector engages further and is less likely to jump out of 4WD. I have never seen this happen myself*, so I'm going to assume it's the case with very worn transfers, very large tyres, and rock. ( Or very big bounces) Again, I'd look at it as an upgrade if you were having problems with the case jumping out of 4WD. It is possible to remove the front output without disturbing the gears so it can be added later.

Just a comment about LROR gears and kits. From my experience, these are generally supplied with generic aftermarket replacement parts (gaskets, seals, bearings) I know that Trail-Gear gears are supplied with generic replacement parts. Whilst I've not owned or driven a car with these seals/bearings in although I have fitted a couple, my preference would be to use Suzuki Genuine parts, especially for the seals.

Trail Tough gears ship with Suzuki Genuine Parts seals, gaskets, bearings, and intermediate shaft. This might not be an issue at all, but it's worth being aware of.

Steve.


*I've seen plenty of cars bump out of 4WD due to bent transfer arms/boot too tight due to body lifts.
Author:  xedent [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
I'm going to also be installing 4.9 gears soon, after reading this what is the best way to remove that little roller bearing without a tiny gear puller ? I don't know the condition of the transfer so I want to replace all bearings etc!
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Gwagensteve wrote:
I made a "puller" out of some cut up and welded together allen keys to get it out when I did one for a club member.
Author:  xedent [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Gwagensteve wrote:
Gwagensteve wrote:
I made a "puller" out of some cut up and welded together allen keys to get it out when I did one for a club member.



Any chance of pictures mate ? Armsup
Author:  xedent [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Ooops double post.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
I'll have a look. Might have it somewhere.

Steve.
Author:  abclarke [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Damn thanks for the great response Steve, talking to alot of people i think i might just leave that little bearing if its in good nick! Yeah reading more into it and the workshop manual im thinking in total ill get the 5 needle bearings i need, plus all 5 of the rollers (just really for peice of mind, not knowing what the case has been through and how close they are to being on the way out!). The one thing i still cant pin point is the seals. So ive emailed Sean and ill wait for a response first before jumping the gun. :)
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Oh, as an aside, if you are planning on carrying some spare transfer case mounts with you, ensure they are factory mounts, not generic copies. Factory mounts have the bridgestone B logo on them. They have lots of stretch in them and last very well. The generic copies are TERRIBLE and break very easily.

It definitely looks like the 5.14 gears (They're calmini sourced by the look of it) don't come with seals. The 4.9 gears look like they are from Trail Tough and will come with SGP seals and gaskets.

Steve.
Author:  xedent [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
So from what your saying above you would not use the SGP seals anyway ? You would get geniune suzuki ones ?
Author:  abclarke [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
xedent wrote:
So from what your saying above you would not use the SGP seals anyway ? You would get geniune suzuki ones ?


Off the top of my head i think SGP means suzuki genuine parts?
Author:  xedent [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Oh hahaahahah Sorry!
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Yep. SGP = suzuki genuine parts.

Steve.
Author:  wolf_rt [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer gears from LROR?
Gwagensteve wrote:
It definitely looks like the 5.14 gears (They're calmini sourced by the look of it) don't come with seals. The 4.9 gears look like they are from Trail Tough and will come with SGP seals and gaskets.

Steve.


That would explain why i didn't get seals when i got the calmini 5.14's and supplement set.... didn't even think to look to be honest.
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