[ms1991]

Going to installl my bar and winch soon but i just wanna make sure of a few things..

What battery do you guys recommend I hook the winch upto?

Im under the impression that the main battery is the go because its able to cope with bigger amp draws than say a deep cycle aux..and i could use the aux to jump start the main if need be.

If thats right, it raises another issue.. my main batt in the vitara is pretty bloody small, half the size of the recommended 660cca battery from togerz 11 (6000lbs winch) so im not to keen on that...

What setups have you found work best?

[BRAD]

dunno much about it but what i think u should do is run it off the main battery, but is you aux battery a bigger size? if so just switch you aux battery to your main because it is always getting charge and its obviously bigger correct me if im wrong

[zooky08]

Run it of you main battery
I run a 9000lb of my stock battery in my Jimny, not flash for a lawn mower battery but it goes alright when u slightly rev the car

[dhula]

If you have a deep cycle battery as your aux then put the winch to the main
If you have a start battery as you aux then it can go to either but will depend heavily on how your system is set up and what kind of current thruput the isolator has as well as length/size of cables between the charging output point and the aux battery.
Best thing to do is play it safe and put the winch to the main battery, that way you remove most if not all the variables and know the battery is getting the best rate of charge it can.

[Scales]

BOTH

My winch is wired to my main batt, and i override the redarc isolator to force join the battery's up when winching. Minimal shock impact on the batterys then.

I tried with just my main battery, drained it in about 30 seconds. engine wasnt running though, was kinda broken and needed to winch up the driveway

This is kinda how mine is wired up, except i dont have a relay controlling the override, its a manual on/off switch in-dash. I like having manual control of the redarc.

[ms1991]

alright taking into consideration all your comments i have decided to go with a setup similar to yours scales.

I will have my main starting battery and another starting battery linked together via a 140A automatic isolator.
Im going to hook up all accessories, winch, lights etc.. onto the aux battery to keep things simple.. even though both batteries are linked together.
My isolator closes when the main starter battery has reached 13.3 V to allow the auxillary battery to charge, once the main starter battery reaches 12.8 V the iso will then open to only allow charge to the main.

[dhula]

Linking is a good idea as it spreads the love.
Make sure you use some sort of high duty switch/solenoid tho, not an isolator rated to 140amps as using the winch has the potential to draw more than that, even across two batteries.
Something constant rate is your best bet.

[Scales]

yeah dude the redarc does the same. but even with the "automatic" side of things, the solenoid will STILL open up when you power the winch, I guarantee it will drop below 12.8V on winch run. This is why the redarc has an override wire (aux in the pic) to force it closed no matter the voltage, otherwise it just clicks on and off and youll only be drawing off the one battery. trust me on this one.

[ms1991]

aha i see what you mean..
the iso I'll be using has no provisions for an override..
any way i could wire one in to stop it from open and closing whilst winching??

[Scales]

UHHHH, be careful there. im not sure how your iso is designed (you havent said what it is yet), but the redarc (when in override) basically uses the voltage from one side of the link to bypass the microcontroller, fooling it into a closed state. and its DESIGNED for that task, out of the box. If yours hasn't got that feature... think really hard about doing it manually, or you could end up with a toasty warm, slightly blackened, engine bay.

Edit: Explain to me EXACTLY how you plan to manually force it on.

[ms1991]

Ive just gone an elcheapo one from ebay, Bush power 140A isolator.

http://www.australiandirect.com.au/buy/ ... it/BP98500

I went with this because im on a budget and because it does what i need to do for extended camping trips etc..
seems I have over looked the winching side of things though, lol.

And dont worry, I wasnt going to fiddle with the Iso.. was just curious as to whether there were wiring kits availiable that tap into the positive on either side of the Automatic isolator and redirect the power through a higher rated fused device of some sort?? whilst having no voltage/amps being fed into the automatic unit I have purchased..so it would be copletely isolated from the circuit. or am i just making all sorts of magical electrical circuits up and wishing they'd work/exist? haha

So atm.. if i was to use the setup i described in my previous post, when winching, my starter battery would be dropping below 12.8 volts which will inturn cause the iso to open so the alternator can charge the main battery..leaving me winch off the aux battery... till the starter battery is charged and the iso closes again to allow charge to the aux battery... then its just a cycle hey?

is this correct, i feel like im just rambling on and not really thinking through what im saying here.. lol

[Scales]

1st off, you can get a redarc cheaper than that on ebay, its where i got mine.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SBI12-redarc ... 337539c6bd

2nd, i dont think there is a "kit" available for what you want to do, you would have to make it up custom and would involve a 2nd bypass heavy duty cable via a manual isolator, basically running 2 isolations circuits.... messy and expensive cable then, and each time you want to winch you would have to lift the bonnet to manually close the 2nd circuit.... pain in the ass. It would work, but its a shitty setup and kinda makes the whole automatic solenoid thing redundant. and having to worry about another possible weakpoint (the extra isolator) isnt really ideal

3rd, if you ran the setup like your prev post:

If the control voltage of the isolator is from the starter batt, and you began winching...
your voltage would drop the instant you winched.... open solenoid... STRAIGHT after this happens.... the starter volts would rise back up due to being isolated.... then solenoid would then close again.
the solenoid would "chatter" on/off/on/off and probably destroy itself fairly quickly given the amount of amperage trying to bust across it. not only that your batterys wouldnt like going from high/low at a ridiculous rate.


If the control voltage is from the aux side.
it would open straight away, stay open till you stopped winching, then close.

both situations are shit IMO.



My recommendation is keep the cable you got with the kit etc, flog off the isolator and buy a redarc. My whole family have that model and have lasted in excess of 10years without problems. Im the only one in the family with a winch, but i havent had grief yet for the 12 months its been in.

[ms1991]

Cheers Scales, Was just thinking of doing that..

I'll admit I didnt really look around for a redarc because i just assumed theyd be ridiculously expensive.. lesson learnt!

I throw the auto iso in dads hilux which doesnt run a winch.

[Scales]

no worries bloke,
Ill have to draw out a proper wiring diag of how ive done it cos that diag can be mis-leading with that positive connection from the winch...... ill do it in the morning, im heading home now.

[ms1991]

That would be awsome mate, thanks again.

[Scales]

As promised, heres how mine is wired up. dont laugh too hard at my noob-cad
The switch in this circuit is on the dash in my car and is a on/off customrockers style switch. the ONLY drawback with this, is you must remember to turn the switch off to return the redarc into "automatic" mode.
so in effect, to winch on MY setup, its a 3 switch combo: winch isolator ON, aux batt ON, winch in/out (all on dash, no pendant, check my build)
The other advantage to this setup is you can use the switch to jump-start yourself if you leave the car stereo on all night while camping etc and you find your starter batt is flat in the morning but your aux is fine.

I mention the use of a relay, all i mean by that is if you want the override to operate automatically, you can wire in a relay in place of the switch and put the coil of the relay into the winch control circuit so it closes when you winch in/out. This is similar to the circuit i posted earlier. I prefer manual control however.

oh and another thing, would be a good idea to wire a winch isolator switch to your dash (via the control circuit, not power) that way no shit-head kids can stick a paperclip in your control box plug and cut your car in half with the winch cable.

[suzukikid]

i had my winch on my gq wired up through the red arc....as was my driving lights fridge ect...

at night with lights on and a HEAVY winch it would be changing charging batterys....so the spot lights would be going on and off as well as the winch....i took it to an auto elec and it never happened again.....haha

was a heavy winch though!and winchin for about an hour

[Scales]

yeah thats exactly the sort of behaviour im reffering to.

the cct i drew would not have those problems. My guess is he probably wired a control relay like i mentioned, its the idiot-proof solution with redarcs. just a little more effort to wire in.

[zooks4life]

My abr sidewinder kit has the override switch in it as well for when I winch, a bit late but r well....

[ms1991]

bloody champion. Thanks Scales!

Bought the Redarc SBI12 yesterday, just waiting for delivery and I shall hook it all up! that circuit looks simple.

Will let you know how I go.

Cheers, Mark.

[Scales]

no worries mate, glad to help.
theres a few other examples of the sbi12 on the redarc site for different applications.

maybe good tech this thread Royce?

[dhula]

If you put a relay in the circuit between your switch (the one to the blue redarc aux wire in Scales' pic) and power that is triggered by either the Acc or On from the ign switch it will cut the link if you forget to switch it off.

You might be able to go directly from Acc or On to the switch and have the same thing but I said use a relay cause I'm not sure of the current draw to activate the redarc. I'd expect it to be pretty low tho.

Doing this you can only winch using two batteries when the key in on (either Acc or On depending on how you wire it) and it is kinda a fail safe to unlink the batteries cause as soon as the turn of the car and remove the key, the circuit is broken

[Scales]

oh yeah, thats a good idea. i might implement that one day. Im kinda in a routine with my "switching" so i doubt id forget it, the winch isolator switch is right beside the aux switch on my setup.
BTW, it is a low current line to override the redarc so a regular auto-relay is fine.

Only drawback i can think of with that relay addition is if the starter is stone-cold-flat, you cant override and use the aux as a starter. would have to be pretty friggen flat not to energize a relay though, so i doubt that would be an issue. (not one a piece of spare wire couldnt fix in a bind)

heres an amended diag of dhulas suggestion.

[ms1991]

Hey Scales, just wondering if your in dash switch is a momentary switch as mentioned in the redarc instructions? guessing its not because you mentioned the downfall of forgetting to switch the redarc back into auto mode, which you wouldnt need to do with a momentary type switch, but just want to clarify

I have a switch ready to go, its a rocker switch with an LED, so the led should be enough to remind me to switch back to auto mode... wondering if i should put the faults recognition LED into the dash..worth the extra bit of work?

also, what setup have you got to islolate your winch? will i need to buy one of those big battery iso switches?

Cheers mate.

[Scales]

nah im using an on/off spst switch from customrockers. it has 2 leds in it, one for the dash backlighting, the other is an indicator. I attempted to wire that led as the "fault recognition" LED but i couldnt get it to work, so it just lights whenever i have the switch on, which is fine.

My brothers redarc is wired as per their instructions with the LED. All the LED does is light up when the solenoid is closed (like the one on the unit itself). and flash for faults..... your call.

The reason it is a momentary switch in the instructions as its only intended as a jump-start aid in that instance, ie. hold button down, turn key, release button. kinda useless in a winch situation, which is why i went the spst on/off.
also if you went momentary, youd have to have it on the left hand side of the steering column for it to be any use.

The rocker switch you have with the LED you may be able to wire it up as the diag LED, depends how its wired into the switch really. mine wouldnt light unless the switch was in the on position, was wired internally that way so i couldnt light it independantly

if some of this doesnt make sense just let me know

[Scales]

oops, forgot about your isolator question.

you wont need a big isolaton switch or anything like that, i used another customrockers switch and wired it into the control circuit of the winch, i think its one of the low-current 12v that fires the in/out solenoids.

what model is your winch? is it 3 wire or 5 wire? i can dig up a cct diag depending on what type you got.

heres what my switch cluster looks like so you get an idea btw. this was taken before i got the winch in/out switch also, that sits on the bottom row in the middle.

[ms1991]

thanks for all your help mate, really do appreciate it.

I'll have a crack at wiring the inbuilt LED as the faults recognition but if it wont work then its no biggy.

Your switch cluster looks awsome mate, unfortunately i cant be bothered making them switches fit lol..and im under the pump to get everything done by friday arvo for a high country trip!

With my winch isloator, i might throw a switch on the small black earth that comes out of the control box, i read somewhere that the solenoids are switched to earth and wont operate if the re is an open circuit on the earth.
My winch is a tigerz11 sux thousand pound job and the control box appears to have 4 pins.

[Scales]

thanks for your kind words, here to help.

what i would do with figuring out an isolator, is open up your solenoid box. connect your pendant, and disconnect some control wires to test the result. there will be one common supply or earth for the solenoids that you just need to put a break in. just make sure its not one that has a heavy load or youll end up with burnies.

wiring the internal controls is generally a piece of piss, i havent seen a 4 wire setup diagram, but cant imagine it being much different to a 3 wire. its pretty good not having to worry where the pendant is and if it still works etc. i still keep it for backup.

this is the extra switch i use, its on.off.on type, dpdt. one of my favorite mods ive done. Ill have to update my pic above

[UBZ]

Interesting read .
Personally I wouldnt use one of those Radarc battery isolates with a winch.
A 9000lb winch will generally pull 3-400amps continuous when under full load.
The Redarc isolators are only rated at 100 or 200amps continuous dependent on model.

As it is effectively joining the batteries in parallel, the load will be equal on both batteries and full current load will have to pass through the underrated isolator , possibly resulting in a melted isolator or fire.

[Scales]

yeah i had that worry too. I called the manufacturers to find out more about it. Obviously they couldnt guarantee anything but they said that it should be fine, and if it does fail, it should protect itself before anything goes horribly wrong. their whole business model is that its a smart solenoid and will trip in an unsafe condition.
ive been using it for a while now with no drama, so im sticking to it.

like you say, 9000lb FULL load. 1tonne zook would have to be pretty damned bogged.... I guess it comes down to being sensible with your winching, dont rush, and let the thing cool after a few seconds at full noise. its pretty obvious when they are drawing a shit-tin of current, so people should take it easy in that situation in any setup. or use a snatch block.


FYI, they can handle up to 400a in a surge anyway. if they go over current, they trip.... that simple

Obviously its up to the individual to make their own decision on what to get, but in my familys experience over a lot of dual batt vehicles, the redarc has been the only one that was faultless. there are others around today that are based on the same thing, but our redarcs were purchased long enough ago that we have not had to try anyone else that have copied since!