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24V system for Sierra
https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32949		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Mon May 28, 2012 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  24V system for Sierra
I need to put a 24V alternator set up in my sierra for winch competitions. I know of a couple of methods such as:

Retain the 12V alternator and battery and add an additional 24V alternator and 2 extra batteries.
Pro's: Retain all standard wiring
If 24v fails there is redundancy for all but the winch
Cons: Needs 3 batteries
Not much space for another alternator
More components to go wrong

The other way is to use a Redarc charge equaliser unit, a 24V alternator and 2 batteries total. The redarc unit drops the output voltage down to 12volt to charge the battery that is used for all standard wiring.
Pro's: Single alternator
Only two batteries
Cons: Redarc unit costs $700

Alternatively there is a modified truck starter solenoid that needs to be used in reverse to allow 12v at all time and just temporarily run 24v while winching. I do not know enough about the modifications to the solenoid to run down this path though.

Is there any other methods that people are using? Opinions on the above? The two batteries that will be used are D27m Optima's which will be mounted behind the seats. A commodore battery is in the stock location if 12v system is still necessary. Looking for the biggest 24v alternator possible for fitment as well if anyone has any suggestions?
Author:  want33s [ Mon May 28, 2012 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
I'd be running a separate 24V system including 2 batteries.
I like redundancy.... In the event of an electrical armageddon you can live without a winch.
These Bosch alts aren't huge capacity but are cheap and common.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bosch-Style- ... 1e68b522ec
Author:  Rhino [ Mon May 28, 2012 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
Would it be possible to run a 24v alt into two 12v batteries hooked up in series?
Then just run the standard wiring off the battery which is earthed to the body?
Author:  3cyl [ Mon May 28, 2012 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
Rhino wrote:
Would it be possible to run a 24v alt into two 12v batteries hooked up in series?
Then just run the standard wiring off the battery which is earthed to the body?

The problem with this is in a series circuit the charge current for both batteries will be the same. Therefore if the 12v battery is flat and the 12 + 12v is still charged the charge current is limited to that which the charged one allows. Hope you can make sense of my crap explanation.
Author:  3cyl [ Mon May 28, 2012 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
I guess another thing is what Sierra motor has enough grunt to run 2 alternators charging 3 batteries and still turn decent size tyres up hills?
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Mon May 28, 2012 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
want33s wrote:
I'd be running a separate 24V system including 2 batteries.
I like redundancy.... In the event of an electrical armageddon you can live without a winch.
These Bosch alts aren't huge capacity but are cheap and common.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bosch-Style- ... 1e68b522ec


I agree redundancy is a huge bonus but it comes at the cost of probably an additional 30kg to the car. I have.contacted that seller to ask what the terminal rpm is which is a problem for most but considering they are advertising it for cars it might be all right.

It is running a carby g16a that is stock but wont be for long. Is there any issue mounting an alternator on the exhaust side?
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon May 28, 2012 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
Do u have to run a 24v winch
Can run something like a 3.motor lowmount they are insane
Another idea could be to Get a pto and run a hiflow pump off that and run a red winch in stead of a 24v winch
Author:  whincup [ Mon May 28, 2012 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
Rhino wrote:
Would it be possible to run a 24v alt into two 12v batteries hooked up in series?
Then just run the standard wiring off the battery which is earthed to the body?


if i understand you correctly you mean this?

Image

if so im curious as to whether it would or not too, i only have a basic understanding of autoelectrical stuff...

sorry for the awesome noobcad work, that thing top right is an alternator :D 24v of course...
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Mon May 28, 2012 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
3 motor lowmounts are even more insane on 24v ;) no I dont need 24v but it makes for a much faster winch. It will be a air free spooled low mount with 6hp motor and a gearing change then it will step up to a 2 motor when i have another spare grand to throw at it. There is no real benefit of a PTO? Still need a pump and the winches are heavier
Author:  3cyl [ Mon May 28, 2012 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
That's what I'm talking about. if one battery is flat it won't charge if the other isn't flat. Edit, I'm refering to the cad pic.
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Mon May 28, 2012 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
3cyl is right. It will not work like thar
Author:  3cyl [ Mon May 28, 2012 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
Zook_Fan wrote:
3 motor lowmounts are even more insane on 24v ;) no I dont need 24v but it makes for a much faster winch. It will be a air free spooled low mount with 6hp motor and a gearing change then it will step up to a 2 motor when i have another spare grand to throw at it. There is no real benefit of a PTO? Still need a pump and the winches are heavier

Surely a decent 12v winch will pull a Sierra heaps fast enough? You'll end up being able to winch faster than you can drive. :rofl:
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon May 28, 2012 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
If u could get a 24v starter motor or migjt be able to get urs rewound u could run the rest of the car on one of the 24 to 12 step down converters u use in the trucks to power radio and trailer lights
There not much on ebay
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon May 28, 2012 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
I think the 3 motor wimch is over 30kmh or something like that
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Mon May 28, 2012 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
got_bar_work wrote:
If u could get a 24v starter motor or migjt be able to get urs rewound u could run the rest of the car on one of the 24 to 12 step down converters u use in the trucks to power radio and trailer lights
There not much on ebay


Got a link? That sounds like what I am chasing.

And yes up here in Rocky the competition is spoiled with the choice of multiple people making very strong and very fast winches. Tripple motor lowmounts and quad motored high mounts are now becoming regulars in comps.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon May 28, 2012 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
I dont know how to get a link on my phone but if u type in 24v converter i hust fond 30amp ones for 9 bucks
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Mon May 28, 2012 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
Looking at them now and they are similar to the redarc unit i posted about. It needs to have a fairly high amp rating to sustain stock wiring and fuelpump but I'll have a search
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon May 28, 2012 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
There was 30a ones for 9 bucks
Run 3 to like a 12amphour batt that should run it
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Mon May 28, 2012 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
Correct me if I am wrong but if you ran several in parralel would you not still only get a max of 30 amps through just with less resistance? 12amp battery will not run a car long at all.
Author:  3cyl [ Mon May 28, 2012 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
Maybe run several on separately fused circuits? IE 1 for fuel pump,1 for wipers, 1 for ignition. 24v is easy for for headlights, indicators etc. Maybe a 24v fuel pump for that matter. You MAY get away with running the starter off 1 battery if it starts without too much cranking.
Author:  ridzilla [ Mon May 28, 2012 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
3cyl wrote:
I guess another thing is what Sierra motor has enough grunt to run 2 alternators charging 3 batteries and still turn decent size tyres up hills?


Just to add on with another question, if the engine can support both alternators will they still charge at a normal level (I think it's 13.7v or 14v) and will the 24v one just more juice rendering the 12v useless?
Author:  got_bar_work [ Tue May 29, 2012 6:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
The car will run it but u will feel it when u load it up
Which ciuld be good because u dont want that much power to the wheel while u winch as u start to out drive the winch
Ask around and see what alternators other people are using
Check out some of the big boat ones aswell
Some one is bound to make a 200a 24v
Author:  dank [ Tue May 29, 2012 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
I can supply a 12 to 24V bolt in step up converter that you can fit to your winch electrical system between solenoid and winch motor to step the current up to 24V on winch in only. These are specifically designed and manufactured to be used as a winch accessory so they are designed to handle the current draw and amps you see in competition situations. Winching out under no load on 24 volt and you will spin the armature windings off and destroy the motor. Seen it done heaps on winch trucks down here.

Indicative pricing sees these landed to your door for around $500-600 at the moment.
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Tue May 29, 2012 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
got_bar_work wrote:
The car will run it but u will feel it when u load it up
Which ciuld be good because u dont want that much power to the wheel while u winch as u start to out drive the winch
Ask around and see what alternators other people are using
Check out some of the big boat ones aswell
Some one is bound to make a 200a 24v


200a 24v would be about as big as a 1.3L engine. Remember when you step up to 24v you halve the amps so that would be equal to a 400a 12v alternator.

With gearing and the speed of the winch out driving it should not be an issue.

3cyl thats not a bad idea, only introduces extra parts for failure. I'll look into that.

Dank got any more info on that? Pm me if you have product specs. Does it require the second battery or is it just a transformer?
Author:  got_bar_work [ Tue May 29, 2012 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
Full load of a 1200lb winch is like 400a so if u have 2 or 3 motors that would mean a lot more unless u wired them in series then u would loose a lot of speed
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Tue May 29, 2012 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
got_bar_work wrote:
Full load of a 1200lb winch is like 400a so if u have 2 or 3 motors that would mean a lot more unless u wired them in series then u would loose a lot of speed


You can't hook them up in series?

The motors being used are the same as the ones in this winch:

http://www.warn.com/truck/winches/95xp_winch.shtml

It shows at 9500lb you will be drawing 480amp on 12v so ~240amp on 24v. So 240amp can be getting drained from the batteries when the winch is at FULL load, not very often.. Given that the gearing is also extremely different for this winch I might see slightly higher amps from it but again I will not be winching under full load for an extended period of time so the batteries will be able to recover the same as anyone running that winch with a 12v system does not run a 480a alternator in the case that they run their winch flat out.

When adding motors I agree that the amperage will go up but given the extra pulling power and speed I believe that the amps would not peak for long. Could be completely wrong with that though.
Author:  dank [ Tue May 29, 2012 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
No second battery it's a step up converter do your vehicle retains stock wiring system. It's a fully integrated step up converter that includes all wiring and in dash control panel. It looks like it also replaces your current winch solenoid as well. I will get some more info as I've been thinking about running one on my Zook.
Author:  dank [ Tue May 29, 2012 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
No second battery it's a step up converter do your vehicle retains stock wiring system. It's a fully integrated step up converter that includes all wiring and in dash control panel. It looks like it also replaces your current winch solenoid as well. I will get some more info as I've been thinking about running one on my Zook. It winches in under 24 volts and winches out on 12 to protect the motors.
Author:  royce [ Wed May 30, 2012 6:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
I wouldnt mid seeing some info on them Dank, ive used a boat thingo that charged a 24v battery bank from 12v that worked but took some work to get setup right (the entire winch and 24v system had to have no connection to the chassis)

Steve had a 24v alternator and bracket for a 1.6 floating around, I bet he still has it and would sell it

Just stick a pair of batteries in the back and be done with it, same as every one else cause thats what works
or spend more money on a strong 12v motor and fast gears and see if it works well enough on a light car
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Wed May 30, 2012 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 24V system for Sierra
Yeah sounds good Dank, let me know how you go.

Royce I am leading that way just require the room for the alternator. I will pm Steve.
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