[rufftruck]

Hi just a quick question do the vitara diff centres in the narrow track 1.3 litre diffs any help would be great cheers

[Bruce]

Let me try to rewrite this so I think I understand.

Hi, just a quick question. Do the Vitara diff centres fit in a narrow track 1.3lt diff housing?

Is that what you are asking rufftruck?

[Shansh]

http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32870&hilit=diff+conversion

bit of a write up here, might help you a bit

[Gwagensteve]

I'll just outline the individual parts so it's clear what we are talking about.

THIS is a diff centre:



THIS is a carrier:



This is a gear set



The whole lot together is generally called a "third member" (unless you are royce, I have no idea what he calls it ) Yes, third member is an American term but at least it isn't a double up calling an assembly by the name of an individual component.

So this is a third member



OK. So now that's clear,

As far as I know, a vitara FRONT diff centre might fit into a NT carrier, but there's no reason to use it as it is inferior to what's in there now. NT sierras have 4 spider gear centres which are stronger than vitara front centres, which are generally 2 spider gears.

The front vitara carrier is made of alloy and is too weak to bother with.

Vitara front ring and pinion gear will fit in a NT carrier, using a NT centre, however, the Vitara ring and pinion has a larger ID and you will need to peen, weld, or sleeve the centre to prevent the centre pins falling out and smashing the pinion.

NO parts of a vitara rear diff fit a sierra diff, front or rear.

I hope this helps someone, if not you.

Sorry if this seems like I'm being aggressive - your post wasn't all that clear and there's lots of confusion about what all the individual components are called. Whilst some people call the components different things, I try to call them all something different to avoid confusion.

Steve.

[Bugsta]

Unless you want to educate every person on this forum and any other, the 'third member' will forever be referred to as the 'dif centre' Pretty much everyone understands thats what is being talked about. And the identifaction of the centre, carrier and gear set is irrelevant to the OP's question.

[Fatzook]

Bugsta wrote:

Unless you want to educate every person on this forum and any other, the 'third member' will forever be referred to as the 'dif centre' Pretty much everyone understands thats what is being talked about. And the identifaction of the centre, carrier and gear set is irrelevant to the OP's question.

No. Steve is right.

The question needed to be asked. The OP did not explain themselves well at all, and clarification was needed. Did he want to use a diff centre? An R&P set? or the complete THIRD?

Just because the majority don't know any better, doesn't mean that they are right by default.

Thanks Steve. Clear, concise information as usual.

[Gwagensteve]

Bugsta wrote:

Unless you want to educate every person on this forum and any other, the 'third member' will forever be referred to as the 'dif centre'

Fail.

Steve.

[jonno_racing]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Bugsta wrote:

Unless you want to educate every person on this forum and any other, the 'third member' will forever be referred to as the 'dif centre'

Fail.

Steve.

I'm with bugsta, 3rd is the yank term for our "center". having bought and sold many a "center" never once have I been asked for or even had the word "third" used.

[SierraDan]

I call everything "diff" until you start talking specifics within the housing/third.

[BlueSuzy]

And dont start with calling diffs axles.

The diff centres out of vitara's. You can only use the vit fronts for sierra housings. Then there are also technicalities. Some alloy, Some steel carriers, Then if your putting into the front of sierra, will need to change spider gears to suit axles, depending if you have chromo's .. etcetc.

[Matthew]

Bugsta wrote:

Pretty much everyone understands thats what is being talked about. And the identifaction of the centre, carrier and gear set is irrelevant to the OP's question.

Really?

It's more likely that "pretty much everyone" was trying to decipher the OP's question.

[Gwagensteve]

jonno_racing wrote:

I'm with bugsta, 3rd is the yank term for our "center". having bought and sold many a "center" never once have I been asked for or even had the word "third" used.

And that's why I prefer the American convention - It's 100% clear that there are an assembly of items. Calling an assembly of parts by the name of one of them would be like calling an engine a piston or a gearbox a layshaft.

It's not normally an issue until someone posts something like the OP here. Is it completely clear which part of the assembly they are talking about? No, not at all, so I broke it down.

As an aside and as a completely honest question, if you call this a diff centre:



What do you call this?



And if they are both diff centres, isn't that confusing?

I'm not nit picking, and I hate americanisms, but we have to call things different names for the sake of clarity. Third member is as good a term as any because it doesn't refer to anything else in there. It's also a unique term for the kind of assembly used by Rovers, Ford 9" and the Japanese, where the whole differential assembly can be removed form the axle housing. That's not the case for Dana diffs, where the carrier IS the housing.

We still have no idea which bit the OP is referring to. I didn't start the confusion, I'm only trying to clarify it.

How often do threads start and the OP and responders are talking about different things? The last one that springs to mind was the jimny sway bar repair thread.

Steve.

[303zuke]

Gwagensteve wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

I'm with bugsta, 3rd is the yank term for our "center".

And that's why I prefer the American convention - It's 100% clear that there are an assembly of items. As an aside and as a completely honest question, if you call this a diff centre:



What do you call this?



Steve.

Hey Jonno, "Center" is the Yank term for our "Centre"!

Steve, I would call that item the diff "Hemisphere", a term and part that is common to both versions of diffs you mention; Suzi/Toyota/Ford 9" or Dana/Salisbury.

Same with "2 or 4 pinion centres". The pinion is a part of the R&P gear set, these gears are called Spider gears.

Same with "Layshaft". Which one is that? I only know an Input shaft, Countershaft and Mainshaft (or output).

[Gwagensteve]

That's why I use the term spider gear or "pin" rather than pinion when referring to diff centres.

I agree with the use of "hemisphere" but I think that's in even less common use than third member, and as you pointed out, it doesn't differentiate between dropout style diffs and dana/sailsbury.

Steve.

[Shansh]

Gwagensteve wrote:

As an aside and as a completely honest question, if you call this a diff centre:



always knew this as a centre

What do you call this?


have always known this as a spool

And if they are both diff centres, isn't that confusing?

Absolutely, it wasnt untill I joined this site & read a few posts by people more experienced than me that I learned the difference between the terms, I still call the whole third member a centre, but thats just me being lazy.


Steve.

[Gwagensteve]

A spool is a permanently locked centre, it contains no gears or means of differentiation.

This is a spool for a ford 9"



This is a "mini" spool:



It goes inside a normal centre and removes the gears.

Steve.

[Shansh]

cool, always glad to be shown where i am mistaken by thoe who know

[rufftruck]

Sorry for taking so long to reply . Thanks for the help and sorry for the confusion what really i meant to ask is can you fit the ring and pinion from the vitara in to the sierra diffs ie 5.12 ratios ? thanks for the help cheers from rufftruck.

[SierraDan]

Front gears yes. But you'll need to solve the problem of the cross pins falling out by retaining cans available at LROR , or adding some tack welds.

[Bugsta]

We're not in America.

You can't expect a non mechanical person to know or remember all of the correct technical terms. I personally do know, or can find out out easily, but I don't expect everyone else to. General convention within the forum of discussion wins every time... in a workshop - that may be the third member. On a discussion forum, (or indeed a partially informed customer of a workshop) I think that'd be the diff centre.

Gear Set - Or sometimes known as 'Ring and Pinion' . The term used by the OP.

All of your information is 100% accurate.Your post was very technical and this can cause lots of confusion with this many individual components.

[Gwagensteve]

I don't expect a non mechanical person to know all the correct terms. This, however, is the tech page of a car-based forum. If we don't know what to call something we can ask, or google, or wiki, or post a photo, or something so there's no confusion. That's all I did.

Uninformed people call suzuki's jeeps, should we do that too, because they're uninformed we just follow along?

Steve.

[Shansh]

im a sparky, admittedly i work on wind turbines so mechanical knowledge is growing but i still consider myself non-mechanical but i can still remember centre, carrier, gear set and third member, like i said i only learned this from joining the site, but i am glad someone took the time to post the correct terms, as even though i still call the third a centre in general conversation, i know the correct terms and what part is what

[boostedbrick]

Bugsta wrote:

Unless you want to educate every person on this forum and any other, the 'third member' will forever be referred to as the 'dif centre' Pretty much everyone understands thats what is being talked about. And the identifaction of the centre, carrier and gear set is irrelevant to the OP's question.

This forum taught me to call it a third member. A diff centre is a completely different thing.

[Zuccinni]

My vote goes to Steve on this topic.

[Bugsta]

I am all for correct teminology. This is the first thread I have seen the term 'third member' used. (obviously I haven't read the many thousands there are). My point is simply that whilst some will understand and remember, most won't.

There are many things like this. CV for one. Many components all with specific names that unless you have the mind to learn AND remember them all, it will be forever... 'I broke a CV' which bit? ummm.

[SierraDan]

The inner race is where mine always broke

[Gwagensteve]

Bugsta, you do realise that a "CV" is an abbreviation for a constant velocity joint, which, by it's nature is an assembly of parts which, quite rightly, all have different names. I see no problem with saying "I've broken a CV" because the whole assembly requires replacement regardless of whether the inner race, cage or bell has broken.

If you broke a ring and pinion, you don't need a new differential assembly, regardless of what you call it.

Steve.

[Fatzook]

Bugsta wrote:

My point is simply that whilst some will understand and remember, most won't.

I guess you're a glass half empty kind of person.

I like to think that ANYONE can and will retain information that they find interesting or informative. And just because you may find it hard to retain information, doesn't mean others will.

I will continue to refer to the "diff centre" as a third member. Perhaps repetition is the key to helping you remember.

[SierraDan]

We should probably agree to disagree. This is going nowhere productive.

[atari4x4]

i feel more stupider than normal after reading this thread.