auszookers.com :: View topic - Make a noise suppressor???

but also on that i doubt it will be a resistor and capacitor rather it would mostlikly be an inductor. as a resistor does nothing for electrical noise where as a capacitor and an inductor does. but i wouldn't worry with the inductor as if you use to large of inductor you can cause huge voltage spikes to go through your system destroying things. plus if you overload them they just become a dead short anyway. so might as well not be there.

Blakey wrote:

Have you ever seen or worked this particular noise suppressor?

Among other things it provides a pulse train to the tachometer and "ignition event" feedback to the ECU, without which the ECU disables injection.

Ill check them both tomorrow ? so i can just buy any noise suppressor (not in line) and it should work

Also i found this if it help
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-sid ... ilter.html

not much of a noise supressor if its for providing a pulse. especally considering a capacitor cant provide a pulse. it charges up and thats it.

the only way it can provide a pulse is if its couppled with a timer such as a 555. then yes it will use a capacitor or 2 and a resistor or 2 to determine a square wave pulse width.

not to mention an electronic tacho gets its pulse from a sensor that is on a toothed gear on the output shaft. there is no need for a noise supressor there as it will ruin the pulsed output from the sensor.

fordem wrote:

Blakey wrote:

Huh?

The noise filter/suppressor seems to be a resistor/capacitor low pass filtering circuit. It filters out the high frequency noise out from the coil ringing after it has fired to provide stable pulses for the ECU to read for coil/ignition feedback.

GV according to that link and the wiring diagram on suzukiinfo on the late model 1.6 (which i assume you have) the 2.2kohm resistor provides the ignition fail safe signal from the coil negative to the ECU pin B6.

I can try and measure the capacitors on mine over the weekend to see if I can get there values for you.

Blakey wrote:

fordem wrote:

Blakey wrote:

I'll take that as a NO - and I'm going to guess you haven't worked with too many electronic tachometers either - for what it's worth, most electronic tachometers on gasolene engines count the pulses when the plugs fire - no sensor and no toothed gears.

GV according to that link and the wiring diagram on suzukiinfo on the late model 1.6 (which i assume you have) the 2.2kohm resistor provides the ignition fail safe signal from the coil negative to the ECU pin B6.

I can try and measure the capacitors on mine over the weekend to see if I can get there values for you.

Ever heard of a RC low pass filter?

That is for AC completely different effects to capacitors on DC. Capacitors block DC that's why they work as noise suppression on a dc. As it removes Any AC component or smooths fluctuating DC potential leaving a smoother DC wave.

So R1 and C1 need to be rated to 400v DC ??

Author:	gvzookdriver [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Make a noise suppressor???
OK well i have printed off i wiring diagram that matches my wiring harness but i am missing the noise suppressor. I have been to the wreckers in Brisbane and Darwin but they don't have any G16B engine with the noise suppressor still attached. I have also rang suziworld and suzistore to see if they can help but they cant Now my BIG question is - Is it possible to to make a noise suppressor ?? Going by the diagram it is only a resistor and 2 capacitors (from memory don't currently have the schismatic in front of me). But i am unsure of the values of all of these. I have had a quick search of the net to try and find out what they are but can not find them. Cheers Peter

Author:	Blakey [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
just chuck in some Capacitors. anywhere from pF to mF what ever your willing to pay. if its for noise better to go smaller so you don't get to large a current fluctuation. you will need one that is a able to take a max voltage spike on the system so like 20V or higher capacitor. larger the F the more current they store. also the slower they suppress Voltage difference. ie change in voltage. you want them to be installed from positive to negative. to remove or smooth out your DC wave, especally cause your coilpacks cause your nice flat DC battery wave to be pretty sperodic. the capacitor smooths it back out. but also on that i doubt it will be a resistor and capacitor rather it would mostlikly be an inductor. as a resistor does nothing for electrical noise where as a capacitor and an inductor does. but i wouldn't worry with the inductor as if you use to large of inductor you can cause huge voltage spikes to go through your system destroying things. plus if you overload them they just become a dead short anyway. so might as well not be there. Also I Think REPCO or SUPERCHEAP sell them might be good to just buy a pre made one also (do not buy an INLINE noise suppressor ) they are bad very bad. do not do it.

Author:	gvzookdriver [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
Ill check them both tomorrow ? so i can just buy any noise suppressor (not in line) and it should work Also i found this if it help http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-sid ... ilter.html

Author:	fordem [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
Blakey wrote: but also on that i doubt it will be a resistor and capacitor rather it would mostlikly be an inductor. as a resistor does nothing for electrical noise where as a capacitor and an inductor does. but i wouldn't worry with the inductor as if you use to large of inductor you can cause huge voltage spikes to go through your system destroying things. plus if you overload them they just become a dead short anyway. so might as well not be there. Have you ever seen or worked this particular noise suppressor? Among other things it provides a pulse train to the tachometer and "ignition event" feedback to the ECU, without which the ECU disables injection.

Author:	Blakey [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
fordem wrote: Blakey wrote: but also on that i doubt it will be a resistor and capacitor rather it would mostlikly be an inductor. as a resistor does nothing for electrical noise where as a capacitor and an inductor does. but i wouldn't worry with the inductor as if you use to large of inductor you can cause huge voltage spikes to go through your system destroying things. plus if you overload them they just become a dead short anyway. so might as well not be there. Have you ever seen or worked this particular noise suppressor? Among other things it provides a pulse train to the tachometer and "ignition event" feedback to the ECU, without which the ECU disables injection. not much of a noise supressor if its for providing a pulse. especally considering a capacitor cant provide a pulse. it charges up and thats it. the only way it can provide a pulse is if its couppled with a timer such as a 555. then yes it will use a capacitor or 2 and a resistor or 2 to determine a square wave pulse width. not to mention an electronic tacho gets its pulse from a sensor that is on a toothed gear on the output shaft. there is no need for a noise supressor there as it will ruin the pulsed output from the sensor.

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Author:	Blakey [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
gvzookdriver wrote: Ill check them both tomorrow ? so i can just buy any noise suppressor (not in line) and it should work Also i found this if it help http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-sid ... ilter.html but from reading that, it seems the resistor is not part of the noise supressor its just show with it. the caps are still just normal capacitors used for supressing noise. and the resistor is for a feedback from the coil. as it says just use a 2kish ohm resistor for the feedback and use a bought noise supressor for the capacitors.

Author:	JrZook [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
Blakey wrote: not much of a noise supressor if its for providing a pulse. especally considering a capacitor cant provide a pulse. it charges up and thats it. the only way it can provide a pulse is if its couppled with a timer such as a 555. then yes it will use a capacitor or 2 and a resistor or 2 to determine a square wave pulse width. not to mention an electronic tacho gets its pulse from a sensor that is on a toothed gear on the output shaft. there is no need for a noise supressor there as it will ruin the pulsed output from the sensor. Huh? The noise filter/suppressor seems to be a resistor/capacitor low pass filtering circuit. It filters out the high frequency noise out from the coil ringing after it has fired to provide stable pulses for the ECU to read for coil/ignition feedback. GV according to that link and the wiring diagram on suzukiinfo on the late model 1.6 (which i assume you have) the 2.2kohm resistor provides the ignition fail safe signal from the coil negative to the ECU pin B6. I can try and measure the capacitors on mine over the weekend to see if I can get there values for you.

Author:	fordem [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
Blakey wrote: fordem wrote: Blakey wrote: but also on that i doubt it will be a resistor and capacitor rather it would mostlikly be an inductor. as a resistor does nothing for electrical noise where as a capacitor and an inductor does. but i wouldn't worry with the inductor as if you use to large of inductor you can cause huge voltage spikes to go through your system destroying things. plus if you overload them they just become a dead short anyway. so might as well not be there. Have you ever seen or worked this particular noise suppressor? Among other things it provides a pulse train to the tachometer and "ignition event" feedback to the ECU, without which the ECU disables injection. not much of a noise supressor if its for providing a pulse. especally considering a capacitor cant provide a pulse. it charges up and thats it. the only way it can provide a pulse is if its couppled with a timer such as a 555. then yes it will use a capacitor or 2 and a resistor or 2 to determine a square wave pulse width. not to mention an electronic tacho gets its pulse from a sensor that is on a toothed gear on the output shaft. there is no need for a noise supressor there as it will ruin the pulsed output from the sensor. I'll take that as a NO - and I'm going to guess you haven't worked with too many electronic tachometers either - for what it's worth, most electronic tachometers on gasolene engines count the pulses when the plugs fire - no sensor and no toothed gears.

Author:	Blakey [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
JrZook wrote: Blakey wrote: not much of a noise supressor if its for providing a pulse. especally considering a capacitor cant provide a pulse. it charges up and thats it. the only way it can provide a pulse is if its couppled with a timer such as a 555. then yes it will use a capacitor or 2 and a resistor or 2 to determine a square wave pulse width. not to mention an electronic tacho gets its pulse from a sensor that is on a toothed gear on the output shaft. there is no need for a noise supressor there as it will ruin the pulsed output from the sensor. Huh? The noise filter/suppressor seems to be a resistor/capacitor low pass filtering circuit. It filters out the high frequency noise out from the coil ringing after it has fired to provide stable pulses for the ECU to read for coil/ignition feedback. GV according to that link and the wiring diagram on suzukiinfo on the late model 1.6 (which i assume you have) the 2.2kohm resistor provides the ignition fail safe signal from the coil negative to the ECU pin B6. I can try and measure the capacitors on mine over the weekend to see if I can get there values for you. lol electronics. i wouldnt worry to much about it. but yes the capacitors filter out the high freq they do not require a resistor to filter, the resitor isnt really part of the noise supressor. its just part of that whole item.

Author:	JrZook [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
Ever heard of a RC low pass filter?

Author:	Blakey [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
fordem wrote: Blakey wrote: fordem wrote: Blakey wrote: but also on that i doubt it will be a resistor and capacitor rather it would mostlikly be an inductor. as a resistor does nothing for electrical noise where as a capacitor and an inductor does. but i wouldn't worry with the inductor as if you use to large of inductor you can cause huge voltage spikes to go through your system destroying things. plus if you overload them they just become a dead short anyway. so might as well not be there. Have you ever seen or worked this particular noise suppressor? Among other things it provides a pulse train to the tachometer and "ignition event" feedback to the ECU, without which the ECU disables injection. not much of a noise supressor if its for providing a pulse. especally considering a capacitor cant provide a pulse. it charges up and thats it. the only way it can provide a pulse is if its couppled with a timer such as a 555. then yes it will use a capacitor or 2 and a resistor or 2 to determine a square wave pulse width. not to mention an electronic tacho gets its pulse from a sensor that is on a toothed gear on the output shaft. there is no need for a noise supressor there as it will ruin the pulsed output from the sensor. I'll take that as a NO - and I'm going to guess you haven't worked with too many electronic tachometers either - for what it's worth, most electronic tachometers on gasolene engines count the pulses when the plugs fire - no sensor and no toothed gears. come to think of it i was thinking of a speedo. but still the capacitor does nothing to do that. it is not used for pulses. as it they do not work like that. capacitors are purely for noise supression, Stabalizing Voltage , and storage of potential.

Author:	gvzookdriver [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
JrZook wrote: GV according to that link and the wiring diagram on suzukiinfo on the late model 1.6 (which i assume you have) the 2.2kohm resistor provides the ignition fail safe signal from the coil negative to the ECU pin B6. I can try and measure the capacitors on mine over the weekend to see if I can get there values for you. Jr Yeah i have a late model 1.6. That would be AWESOME if you could figure out the capacitors then i could just make my own little noise suppressor to get the car up and running till i can find a factory one

Author:	Blakey [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
JrZook wrote: Ever heard of a RC low pass filter? That is for AC completely different effects to capacitors on DC. Capacitors block DC that's why they work as noise suppression on a dc. As it removes Any AC component or smooths fluctuating DC potential leaving a smoother DC wave.

Author:	JrZook [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
Blakey the coil negative which the suppressor is connected to has coil ringing and high frequency noise on it from the back EMF produced from the coil. This can be regarded as 'AC' as its a high frequency fluctuation in voltage.

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Author:	Rhinoman [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
I'm pretty sure that the spec for the noise suppressor is in one of the FSMs, they are common to pretty much all of the EFi Suzukis up to around 1998. I'll I'll take a look and see what I can find. If I can't find it I'll measure mine on Monday.

Author:	Rhinoman [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
Blakey wrote: That is for AC completely different effects to capacitors on DC. Capacitors block DC that's why they work as noise suppression on a dc. As it removes Any AC component or smooths fluctuating DC potential leaving a smoother DC wave. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Author:	gvzookdriver [ Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
So did anyone get to measure there noise suppressor ??

Author:	Rhinoman [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
I'll do it tomorrow, I need to put it on a bridge.

Author:	gvzookdriver [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
Thanks

Author:	Rhinoman [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
This is what I measured it as:

Author:	gvzookdriver [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
AWESOME thanks sooooooo much for that. Now lets hope that jaycar has those size capacitors and resistors

Author:	Rhinoman [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
I forgot to mention that the coil negative is usually clamped at around 400V so you will need to ensure that your components are adequately rated. On the ign+ side you will see a lot of noise but 100V should be adequate.

Author:	gvzookdriver [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
So R1 and C1 need to be rated to 400v DC ??

Author:	Rhinoman [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
gvzookdriver wrote: So R1 and C1 need to be rated to 400v DC ?? Call it 500V and you should be good.

Author:	gvzookdriver [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
Thanks sooooo much for your help and the part number I have had a look at a store here in oz and this is what i have found can you just check to make sure i have this right .47uf 100Vdc http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p/pl ... m/4762825/ 2.2k resistor 500vdc http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p/th ... d/0386240/ 2200pf 500vdc http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p/mica/0495896/

Author:	Rhinoman [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
You're OK on the tolerances as the stock items aren't so accurate, I wold go for a metal film resistor for reliability and you need a higher voltage rating anyway.

Author:	royce [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
Have you checked with suzuki if the part is still available?

Author:	gvzookdriver [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
Yeah it is still available they have said it will be a special order and will take a minimum of a month to get here. have ordered one but It's the only thing left to do to start the car then get rego before I move back to Brisbane.

Author:	JrZook [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Make a noise suppressor???
gvzookdriver wrote: have ordered one How much they worth these days?