[DarkHorse]

Been wondering for a while about the available long range tanks for early Vitaras - my LWB generally takes a touch over 45L and was good for about 450km on the freeway... stock. With lift and 31s that has dropped to around 350km... if there's no hills in the way. With a 2L turbo in it that's going to drop further

The only retail ones I've come across are from Brown Davis in Victoria: http://www.longrange.com.au/navtankmodels.html#suzuki
They do an 80L unit for the LWB, 65L for the SWB. Waiting to hear back on price, and I've also asked about the possibility of a custom one to extend 50mm higher into the air freed up by my body lift.

Anyone know of or have one from anywhere else? There aren't any aux tanks around are there? Where would you put one?
Long Ranger do one for Sierras, but not Vits (the Phillistines)

How hard is it (practically and more importantly legally) to get one made up? Would there be enough interest around to get a batch made up if the price was reasonable?

Commence discussion.

[BRAD]

Your in sydney right? cause i think 4x4 specialist in penrith can custom make one, but it wont be cheap, im pretty sure the brown davis one is about $1100, so 4x4 specialist will probably be more.(probably did help you that much but its some thing haha)

[DSzuke]

The previous owner of mine had a Long Ranger one made.

I can get about 100L in it so I think its a 105. I believe it was a test one or maybe a one-off.

The part number off the invoice was DM10220851 and it was fitted in Jan 2002 if you want to try them and see if it is in their system.


You could of course have the tank with a car attached http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32514

[Polar_Bear]

i have one of those brown davis 65l ones for the swb vit, i reckon it was only like 400 bucks new...back in the day

[DarkHorse]

I've had one reply, and that was a neg.

BD and LR apparently don't respond to e-mail enquiries.

Thanks guys.

[FullyZooked]

Just got off the phone to Cameron frOm Brown Davis regards a 65lt for my 93 swb Vitara. He said he will get someone to call me back today sometime.

He said as they were not a big seller they may need me to take my car to them for the install as it may not be straightforward? Hmmm. Either that or they will organize someone in Bendigo to do the install. So I'm guessing they have done limited runs on the SWB Vit tanks and there might be some customizing to do.

I'll let you know what he says when they get back to me.

[DarkHorse]

FullyZooked wrote:

Just got off the phone to Cameron frOm Brown Davis regards a 65lt for my 93 swb Vitara. He said he will get someone to call me back today sometime.

He said as they were not a big seller they may need me to take my car to them for the install as it may not be straightforward? Hmmm. Either that or they will organize someone in Bendigo to do the install. So I'm guessing they have done limited runs on the SWB Vit tanks and there might be some customizing to do.

I'll let you know what he says when they get back to me.

Cos they've changed so much in the last 20 years?

Do keep me posted mate - if they're customising anyway I'd be interested in them doing a bigger one to take up the 50mm of air I've got above the tank thanks to the body lift. Should be good for another 20 or so litres...?

Did he give you a price?

[FullyZooked]

Well haven't heard back yet. We're off to a good start!

No he didnt give a price but said he would have one of the engineers call me.

I couldn't think of much better than having 65lt of juice to actually get some touring done.

[shandy92]

any update on this????

[buzbox]

I'm keen to see your findings with this one, I know how concerning it can be when you just tipped in your last 20L jerry of fuel into it and only see it fill 1/4 tank and not knowing where your next fuel stop is going to be. One time I've come close, the missus kept eyeing off the fuel level and started panicking but I've been pretty lucky as I've kept a 5L jerry as reserve without her knowing but I've always managed to fill up at the next possible place, buuut it only takes that one time for your luck and fuel to run out to cause panic.

[shandy92]

the long range tank for the swb will be more benifical over the lwb guys as our tank is only 42L, mine isnt even that because of the dents! i have contacted a perth guy who makes custom tanks, once i here back ill let you guys know.

[DarkHorse]

Yeah, not looking great, I haven't heard anything back from the few places I contacted. Appreciate any leads you guys get.

I got low enough to need 50L on the Coffin trip. Always had 20L in the back, but would be good to know I can get 750km+ if I needed to.

Driving with a Sierra kind of put things into perspective though!

[FullyZooked]

Sorry fellas totally forgot. Ended up getting onto a lady from Brown Davis who was happy to help me. The 65lt tank is $1200 for the SWB and there is a 2 week lead time.

Bit off topic but what sort of fuel consumption you gettIng Darkhorse?

[DarkHorse]

$1200? Ouch. Pass.

On the coffin trip driving at Sierra speed (85-90km/h) I was getting as good as 12.3km/l, or just on 8L/100km.

On the way back sinking the boot in it got as bad as 7.7km/l, so over 12L/100km.

[FullyZooked]

Is that in a Vit or Sierra? I'm hearing ya on the $1200 price tag!

[Fatzook]

$1200 is cheap.

[atari4x4]

Fatzook wrote:

$1200 is cheap.

thats what i thought.... i'm certain they were around that much 6 years ago when i was looking at tanks, then the SV thing came up & it was custom.

[buzbox]

I suppose jerry cans are still the way to go then.

[christover1]

buzbox wrote:

I suppose jerry cans are still the way to go then.

I looked into a few options for a long range tank,
including fitting the 70L Vitara tank, aftermarket,
and other 2nd hand tanks from wreckers.

But then I bought 2 x 20L jerry cans for $20 off ebay,
and 2 new 10L jerrys from Autobahn for $40.
So with my 10 litre jerry that I already have, gives me 70L extra when needed.
Making a total of 120L allowing for a 5L dent in tank
For a Princely sum of $60

Long range tank would be nice, but already got a 55/50L tank,
and can't justify $1200 on my income, or lack thereof.

[DarkHorse]

$1200 is cheap for a steel box with a couple of hose fittings? Where does the cost come from?

That fuel use was in the Vit running 235/85/16 BFG ATs.

[got_bar_work]

A hell of a lot of design goes into a long range tank
They are built way stronger then normal pressed tanks
There Is a lot of folds and baffels in them which hall have to be welded water tight
The hole thing usually get filled with compressed air and left for a while to check for leaks
They usually have a few different layers of paint etc
It takes a lot of time
And time is money

[Fatzook]

I love it when people over simplify things......

The cost comes into it when you consider they have to pay for materials, design time, welding consumables, tubes, fittings, machined bosses, sealants, paint and skilled labour. Then they have to pressure test them, and add their build plate certifying that the tank is ADR compliant and safe to use in a vehicle. I'm sure that you would also be paying a small amount towards their liability insurance aswell. And after all that, the company still needs to turn a profit.

[DarkHorse]

Yes, I was oversimplifying. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about being facetious. I do appreciate that there are costs involved with design, but surely that's a one-off cost. Even different models of vehicle would involve adaptation of concept rather than ground-up design?

Materials and welding consumables are negligable (in terms of a $1200 product) even including wear & tear on tools and machinery. Fittings, tubes, bosses can't be worth that much. As for labour - as exact and highly skilled an art as that standard of welding is I'm pretty sure they aren't paid what they should be (I'm assuming that small volume products mean not machine welded, but would be machine cut?)

The time involved is possibly the easiest way for me to come to terms with it, even if sinking it in a tank of water or dropping it off a roof don't exactly sound time intensive

Unfortunately the bottom line is that paying half the cost of our cars again for the sake of two Jerrys full of fuel capacity is just not a realistic option - or at least not a priority.

[stocker]

Now you've outlined the Ironic side of a Long Range Tank in a Vit


...i quite often joke around with my mates how i fitted long range tanks to my zookie and doubled my range. ie: two 20L Jerry Can's.

So here's an idea. if you've got the idea of you need more fuel for a longer range, Find a spot too mount two Jerry cans

[Fatzook]

DarkHorse wrote:

Yes, I was oversimplifying. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about being facetious. No, you weren't

I do appreciate that there are costs involved with design, but surely that's a one-off cost. Even different models of vehicle would involve adaptation of concept rather than ground-up design? More likely than not, they have a very expensive bit of gear called a 3D scanner. They will have minions in the office who will model a concept in solidworks or CAD based on the 3D scan of the floorpan and every other components under the vehicle. The shape of the tank will dictate where and how it is mounted. Mounts would most likely have to pass a stress analysis test ( during modelling stage, possibly at physical stage aswell) Baffle positioning would be fairly similar for most vehicles. Things like sender size fuel pump size etc will dictate the mounting bosses for both. These are not likely to be the same for every vehicle, so there is more time in the hole. I'm sure I am eaving heaps out.

Materials and welding consumables are negligable (in terms of a $1200 product) even including wear & tear on tools and machinery. Fittings, tubes, bosses can't be worth that much. As for labour - as exact and highly skilled an art as that standard of welding is I'm pretty sure they aren't paid what they should be (I'm assuming that small volume products mean not machine welded, but would be machine cut?)

Wonder what a large workshop has to pay in overheads? I wonder what maintanence and depreciation are like on capitol purchases such as guillotines, Press brakes, Pressure rigs etc? There are costs added to each product that fall far outside the basics of materials and labour. This could be built into labour units, or a % added to the cost of each product before markup.... either way, you pay for it.

The time involved is possibly the easiest way for me to come to terms with it, even if sinking it in a tank of water or dropping it off a roof don't exactly sound time intensive

Unfortunately the bottom line is that paying half the cost of our cars again for the sake of two Jerrys full of fuel capacity is just not a realistic option - or at least not a priority.

Yeah, i'm not sure what you were thinking. This was always going to be prohibitive when compared to the value of your vehicle. But on the other hand, you are working through a possible $10K engine conversion on a $5k car, so maybe a $1200 tank isn't that bad after all?

[shep]

is there room under them for a second fueltank? my sierra is getting a lwb vit tank in the stock position and the
sierra tank is going beside the tailshaft with a simple clacker pump to transfer the fuel.

[Fatzook]

shep wrote:

is there room under them for a second fueltank? my sierra is getting a lwb vit tank in the stock position and the
sierra tank is going beside the tailshaft with a simple clacker pump to transfer the fuel.

Maybe. But the centred rear diff means the driveshaft will steal space for the second tank. No reason why you could not make one to fit, but isn't that the same as getting a long ranger made??

[DarkHorse]

There probably is room, but it'd only be small. Maybe above the A-arm?



Otherwise as Fatz said it'd be thin between the drive shaft and chassis rail on the driver's side (exhaust runs passenger side.)

What about a (or a couple of) small aux tanks that just gravity feed into the main tank? No need for pumps, baffles, swirl pot etc? Problem I guess would be getting up high enough to feed down. I reckon you could get 20-25L in front of the stock tank, use the brake line mounts and stock tank mounts...

Would obviously still need ADR/AS compliancing and testing, which probably makes it prohibitively expensive anyway.

FatZook wrote:

But on the other hand, you are working through a possible $10K engine conversion on a $5k car, so maybe a $1200 tank isn't that bad after all?

Fair point, except that there isn't a $20 alternative for 180kW.

[shep]

if you plug the original tanks vent into the out line of the axillary tank it will suck the fuel into the main tank as it empties.

[ajsr]

DarkHorse wrote:

Yes, I was oversimplifying. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about being facetious. I do appreciate that there are costs involved with design, but surely that's a one-off cost. Even different models of vehicle would involve adaptation of concept rather than ground-up design?

Materials and welding consumables are negligable (in terms of a $1200 product) even including wear & tear on tools and machinery. Fittings, tubes, bosses can't be worth that much. As for labour - as exact and highly skilled an art as that standard of welding is I'm pretty sure they aren't paid what they should be (I'm assuming that small volume products mean not machine welded, but would be machine cut?)

The time involved is possibly the easiest way for me to come to terms with it, even if sinking it in a tank of water or dropping it off a roof don't exactly sound time intensive

Unfortunately the bottom line is that paying half the cost of our cars again for the sake of two Jerrys full of fuel capacity is just not a realistic option - or at least not a priority.

ok as some one who used to make brown davis longrange 4wd tanks, I can tell you-

R&D takes a couple of days to a week for up to 3-4 guys to make a tank for a new model.

then a plan is drawn.

the tank parts are cut by a sheety by hand, off templates (maybe not now)

the parts are given to the welder , who then has to assemble anything up to 30 pieces depending on the tank and model.
once assembled and tacked it all has to be ok'd by a shift super

then you weld the tank ( I used to average between 2 and 3 tanks a day) Each tank will have a variety of baffels, breathers, swirl pots , fuel pump bosses, fillers and brackets all that have to be spot on to the mm.

as the process goes on the tanks must be cleaned and vaccuumed to ensure your fuel pump survives the start up.

once welded the tank is ground if needed, pressure tested for leaks, and then rewelded to fix .

the tank is then cleaned again and presented to the shift super for the ok before you weld the tags to the tank .

then they head off for paint.


oh and then the manuactures release the updated model and it all needs to be changed to suit that. and then the LWB model comes out and that needs a new tank to be made.

just a steel box yes it is . but try making your own and say that

the thing is we will pay $ 800 to 1000 for a bull bar and think little of it but a fuel tank that is harder to make and assemble and takes just as much r&d is too expensive