[SeanusMaximus]

I'm running a 38/38 weber DGMS carb on my zook. I dont hear of many people doing this at all so i just want to hear your thoughts, experiences, opinions etc.

[JrZook]

On the 1.3? Hows it go? A few of us have run the 32/36 with descent success as its easier to find and thus cheaper.

[SeanusMaximus]

yea the 1.3 It goes like crazy. At first the jets were too big so it ran very rich and guzzled fuel. So then i changed the jets and finally managed to tune both barrels the same. I have the occasional problem of it flooding on steep downhills but then i just roll start it so its not much of a problem. The low down power that it gives is insane. i'm often spinning both rear wheels at the lights as it gives a "shot" of fuel with both barrels wide open at take off. The economy can take a bit of a beating when i'm gunning it but usually it gives about 11 kpl. Worst i've had is 6 kpl before it was tuned properly, thrashing it WOT on the beach all day. Oh and the sound it makes at WOT is worth every cent

[jdk81]

So it gives you decent power, but stalls on steep grades of descent?

How much was the carby conversion?

[MacDaddy]

SeanusMaximus wrote:

yea the 1.3 It goes like crazy. At first the jets were too big so it ran very rich and guzzled fuel. So then i changed the jets and finally managed to tune both barrels the same. I have the occasional problem of it flooding on steep downhills but then i just roll start it so its not much of a problem. The low down power that it gives is insane. i'm often spinning both rear wheels at the lights as it gives a "shot" of fuel with both barrels wide open at take off. The economy can take a bit of a beating when i'm gunning it but usually it gives about 11 kpl. Worst i've had is 6 kpl before it was tuned properly, thrashing it WOT on the beach all day. Oh and the sound it makes at WOT is worth every cent

That flooding on angles, is a well known problem with the Weber... there is a fix for it in AZ somewhere, with pictures...

I did a search and got 3 results -
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14220&p=222677
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18679&p=311929
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9856&p=169345

[FullyZooked]

I have run the 38/38 Dgms for a while now and yes it is a beast.

I had the 32/36 installed before the 38 and I would never go back.

What size jets are you running on the 1.3?

[SuziBlu]

Im doing 2 x40mm DCOE webers when I get home this time, coupled to a 1.6, I hope it goes shitloads better than my 1.3l with a 32/36.

As weber says, 32/36 is a nice upgrade, the 38/38 is next and makes a lot more power, then is the twin 40mms.

I hope the not bullshitting when they say no flooding issues with the side drafts.

Out of interest, did you port your intake to suit the 38s.

I found noticeable difference doing this with the 32/38, seemed to be more low down holding power.

[SeanusMaximus]

Yea i turned it round so it wouldnt stall when i needed the power. haha it cost $420 including postage from the states. Got onto Triangle Austo supplies in Yakima WA, who charge about $70 postage. I can't remember off the top of my head what jets im running but i think they were 55 idle, 135 mains and 185 air correctors. I'll update when i know for sure. And no i haven't ported the intake at all. Not yet...

[skyman]

The best anti-flooding mod I ever did while running the 32/36 was to include a fuel pump switch.

When going down steep inclines I would flip the switch to the fuel pump, and turn it off. This would gravity feed the Weber through the fuel pump (read slow/to no fueling), and it would idle just fine all the way down the hill.

The only problem I had with that was that it would run off the fuel in the bowl for awhile so I would forget to turn the pump back on and it would die at the worst moments.

Another setting of paramount importance is the float height in the fuel bowl, and the needle drop. This would make the difference between a rig that would stall when you sneezed, to one that rarely stalled on the steepest hill.

What you do is run the fuel level in the bowl as low as you possibly can (to avoid flooding), then increase the amount the needle valve drops to compensate. More needle drop allows the float bowl to fill quicker, which is needed when you run a very low float setting.

I did the vent/epoxy mod and just about every other trick in the book to get more performance and stability out of the Weber. The one that worked the best was the fuel pump switch.

When the intake is ported, and matched and everything is in order, the little 1.3/Weber combo can surprise a lot of people.

[skyman]

Woooah

These guys are literally 5km from the place here. Triangle is where I get all the parts for my Zook.

Two brothers own the place, I think the business has been past down in the family forever. I also bought all my VW parts there. They really are top blokes, who dont mind walking out to your rig to help troubleshoot. They also sell jets individually, if you have a hard time finding a jet size, they can get it for you.

It is nice to See Triangle selling parts all over. They are one of the very last independent parts houses in this part of the state. Places like Autozone and O'riely's (run by 16 yr old numpty's) have taken over.

SeanusMaximus wrote:

Yea i turned it round so it wouldnt stall when i needed the power. haha it cost $420 including postage from the states. Got onto Triangle Austo supplies in Yakima WA, who charge about $70 postage. I can't remember off the top of my head what jets im running but i think they were 55 idle, 135 mains and 185 air correctors. I'll update when i know for sure. And no i haven't ported the intake at all. Not yet...

[SuziBlu]

Triangle is who I got the twin DCOEs from, nice people to deal with.

[skyman]

They are really great in person too. I have had them come out and look over the 32/36 in Zook. We have also dismantled carbs right there on their parts counter before.

My zook came with a headache of a weber, that was worn and in bad shape form a bad install. I ended up buying anew one, but Triangle sure had patience with me trying to get the old leaky one up to snuff. Seriously top blokes. 150% better than service I get at any chain store, too bad those type of shops are a dying breed here in the U.S.

[royce]

Suziblu, get the vent extension bit for your twins or youll be swearing a lot and loudly about them running like crap over every bump

You can tell the cars at every motorkahna I go to running DCOE's, they all stutter and stammer and need to clear their throat after every handbrake turn cause the fuel sloshes up over the air thingos.

[FullyZooked]

SeanusMaximus wrote:

Yea i turned it round so it wouldnt stall when i needed the power. haha it cost $420 including postage from the states. Got onto Triangle Austo supplies in Yakima WA, who charge about $70 postage. I can't remember off the top of my head what jets im running but i think they were 55 idle, 135 mains and 185 air correctors. I'll update when i know for sure. And no i haven't ported the intake at all. Not yet...

On my 1.6 I'm running 145 mains, 60 idles and 185 air correctors.

I still have a noticeable annoying bog just off idle. It's like it gets the double shot from the pumps but then leans out for a brief moment then pulls strong all the way to the top. I have tried to run 70 idles and this just turns it into a rich pig spluttering and carrying on. I have tried a variety of smaller idles bigger mains and the other way around aswell as float level adjustment and I just can't get rid of the little bugger.

BTW my inlet manifold has been ported to match the 2 peice adapter plate I run. This only took 15 minutes to do with the die grinder. Definately look at this next time your inlet manifold is off.

Also what do you have your low speed screws set at?

[skyman]

By reading the above I bet you have a small vacuum leak, a leak at the base of the carb, bad PCV valve, or maybe a worn throttle shaft?

I had a lean bog right off of idle I could not nail down. Bigger jets helped, but made it pig rich through mid range. Small jets and more mixture adjustment helped but didn't quite solve it either.

It turned out I had a worn throttle shaft that was making me lean just at throttle tip in. I would d check above and see what you come up with, with priority to the PCV and throttle shaft.

Does backing out the mixture screw a bit help at all?

How do the plugs look after a test at cruise, and how is cruise response? The air corrector seem a bit big to me, but you are in a totally different environment.n

[JrZook]

Accelerator pump shot and jet size/linkage adjustment?

[SierraDan]

I wonder if the float is set low in my stock carb.. i don't get any stalling issues at on angles up about 60deg after that it just runs rough..

[SeanusMaximus]

FullyZooked wrote:

SeanusMaximus wrote:

Yea i turned it round so it wouldnt stall when i needed the power. haha it cost $420 including postage from the states. Got onto Triangle Austo supplies in Yakima WA, who charge about $70 postage. I can't remember off the top of my head what jets im running but i think they were 55 idle, 135 mains and 185 air correctors. I'll update when i know for sure. And no i haven't ported the intake at all. Not yet...

On my 1.6 I'm running 145 mains, 60 idles and 185 air correctors.

I still have a noticeable annoying bog just off idle. It's like it gets the double shot from the pumps but then leans out for a brief moment then pulls strong all the way to the top. I have tried to run 70 idles and this just turns it into a rich pig spluttering and carrying on. I have tried a variety of smaller idles bigger mains and the other way around aswell as float level adjustment and I just can't get rid of the little bugger.

BTW my inlet manifold has been ported to match the 2 peice adapter plate I run. This only took 15 minutes to do with the die grinder. Definately look at this next time your inlet manifold is off.

Also what do you have your low speed screws set at?

I had that problem too. I found it could be fixed by properly adjusting the idle mixture screws. The carb runs at all sorts of mixtures so i got an lambda meter and adjusted to idle to about 13.5. It now runs with only the occasional hiccup when taking off. It runs lean on part throttle with low load but becomes richer with more load or more throttle. Check the mixture needles. Mine were damaged slightly at the tip so filed the tips off and its easy to adjust now. Which are the low speed screws? If its the mixture ones on either side they're out 1 1/4 turns from hand tight. The throttle stop is set at 1/4 turn after contact.

[SeanusMaximus]

The reason i've worked out for the stutter is that because of the size of the carb, the vacuum produced with both barrels open at low speed isnt quite enough to get the fuel flowing before the accelerator pump effect has finished. That's the only reason i can come up with. A way of overcoming it is rapidly pumping the throttle with small flutters to keep the accelerator pump pumping until the vacuum has drawn the fuel through

[want33s]

skyman wrote:

The best anti-flooding mod I ever did while running the 32/36 was to include a fuel pump switch.

When going down steep inclines I would flip the switch to the fuel pump, and turn it off. This would gravity feed the Weber through the fuel pump (read slow/to no fueling), and it would idle just fine all the way down the hill.

The only problem I had with that was that it would run off the fuel in the bowl for awhile so I would forget to turn the pump back on and it would die at the worst moments.

A mercury switch from EG: A volvo 240 bonnet light would do this automatically and you could fit an over-ride switch if needed.

[SuziBlu]

royce wrote:

Suziblu, get the vent extension bit for your twins or youll be swearing a lot and loudly about them running like crap over every bump

You can tell the cars at every motorkahna I go to running DCOE's, they all stutter and stammer and need to clear their throat after every handbrake turn cause the fuel sloshes up over the air thingos.

Got any links to this Royce, maybe just contact weber, but they say, no flooding issues.

[royce]

no links, its just a spacer thing goes where the bit you pull off the top to get at the jets is and some other stuff, webers are for cooking steaks not mixing fuel so I dont pay attention to that stuff

Anyone selling a product will tell you its awesome, its not really flooding more sloshing and dumping fuel in the air thingos, same as having way too high a float level

Even seen the massive vents drag cars have on holleys? same prob, fuel coming out where it shouldn't due to too much movement

[want33s]

Can you get float bowl foam cells for Webers like you can for Holleys... to stop fuel slosh.

[FullyZooked]

I'm hearing you regards the low Vacuum off idle. The only way I can cure the bog is to install 70 idles and you can imagine how rich this is. I have also found that raising the float level cures the transition bog but then plays havoc with topend richness and also exagerates the angle overfuelling.

If I am smooth on the the throttle you don't get the bog. It's only when you step on it. The joys of webers.

[skyman]

Now that I would love to see in a Weber Jas. I wonder how the foam would go in a Weber for offroad.You have a good idea in the mercury switch too. If the fuel pump cut off was automatic it would have been livable for me.

I spent a lot of time with the 32/36 from experience I would not recommend one for an offroad rig..ever, but if you already have one, there are some things you can do to make them better.

SeanusMaximus
Try spraying some WD-40 or anything like that around the base of the carb and the throttle shafts while it is idling. See if you can find a spot that changes the idle when you hit it with the spray. If it does you have found a leak, and webers don't so well with the tiniest of air leaks. Seriously, you should be able to jet the 38 so there is no hesitation off idle.

Quote:

It runs lean on part throttle with low load but becomes richer with more load or more throttle.

That sounds like an awesome tune. It should be lean at cruise when it has no no load to save fuel, but richen up when you get on the throttle or it gets under a load t prevent pinging or detonation.

Even the cheap narrow band O2 gauges help with the weber. The narrow band are not near as accurate as a wideband, but at least the give you the ballpark and you can see where you are way too lean, or pig rich.


I have a bunch of tips, tricks tweaks and procedures I learned from guy named Sarge who used to build and tune them professionally (The 32/36-38/38). If you want I can make a separate post and share some of that. I just don't want to clutter this thread, repeat stuff you guys already know.

[JrZook]

You can adjust fuelling on transition by playing with the accelerator pump cam.

Fullzooked:

The larger idle jets will richen up the mixture but you can trim this mixture at lower idle speeds with the idle mixture screw. Also what emulsion tubes are you guys running? These also play a significant role when the idle transitions to the main circuit.

With my Weber I ended up modifying the transition ports that are located just above the butterfly. I plugged the originals and drilled new ports closer to where the butterfly closed. This effectively pulled the main circuit on quicker and got rid of the off idle stumble due to a lean condition.

[SuziBlu]

Skyman, Sarge is well known for his knowledge of webers, yet finding his writings is very hard, I would love to see anything written by sarge in one place, like here.

If you have his writings/findings, please put it up here.

[skyman]

I'll do a post as soon as I can, maybe Jr Zook can read it over and add what he knows, and correct any mistakes I have made along the way.

Sarge seemed to it it off pretty well, he was kind enough to teach me everything he could about the 32/36 and 38 carbs and the Suzuki 1.3. He spent a few hours at a time on the phone with me over the period of about a month. I'm just lucky he was patient enough to answer all my questions. I will go through all my old PMs and messages and see what I can find that he has written down as well.

I think the most important things he passed on was how the carb works, and how each circuit operates and effects the other. once I had the basics down of how the circuits worked (and the float). It made them a heck of a lot easier to tune. the other was how to prep, and port the stock intake for better flow without loosing torque.

I will write it all up over the next few days, and if JrZook is willing(or has the time) send it to him before I post it up, so he can correct any glaring mistakes, and maybe add what he knows.

Does anyone have a picture of a bare Australian carby manifolds form the top down they could post up or send me way? if they came from the same casting as the U.S. Carby manifolds, then they should port out the same.

[SuziBlu]

I would say that they are one and the same.

Two very small holes, opened up to form 1 oblong hole about 3.5 times the size.

Even if they are different, good pics will explain how to.

I have some pics of before and after, but not of quality to show.

[SeanusMaximus]

Skyman: A separate post would be awesome! Finding info on running zooks with these carbs is hard as it is. I tried the WD-40 again. It was the first thing i tried when i noticed the hiccups. Still no change. The O2 sensor has made so much of a difference when tuning. Probably the best $200 ive spent. It also improves my driving habits as i can see where i'm using the fuel and where i'm getting the most bang for my buck.