[atari4x4]

Good Afternoon Ladies & Gentlemen, I'm in need of help from the electrical guru's on here... fordem, Rhinoman & JrZook I'm looking at you.

I've got a faulty CMP (Cam Position) Sensor on the J20a that is suffering from heat soak in my SV420, the OEM sensor is a Hitachi unit with the following part number 33100-77E20 D4Y94-01A and looks like this.











My local suzuki dealer also confirmed that is the correct part number for my VIN number & they wanted $871.61 for a replacement that was going to be a 4 week wait from Japan.

I took this info & did a heap of research looking for a replacement & came across the following place that has the correct OEM part listing http://www.richporter.ca/?p=About%20US and bought this one off ebay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/02-04-Suzuki ... 45fe64f0c2

Went to fit it today & while it looks identical, bolts up & plugs in correctly, I don't even get a tacho signal when cranking & zero spark. Swap in the old one & it will crank & fire up straight away before eventually dieing once it comes up to temp & gets heat soak.

The J20a was never released in the Vitara in the US, but from what I found online they run the same sensors as the J18a in the 1999 - 2000 Suzuki Esteem 1.8 & 1996 - 1997 Suzuki Sidekick 1.8 but it doesn't appear that way...

http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-sid ... ces-4.html

Quote:

the 1.8 Esteem uses head #11100-65G00 & cam sensor #33100-77E20
the 1.8 Sport uses head #11100-77E00 & cam sensor #33100-77E20

so the heads are different part numbers but the cam sensors are the same.
so the cam sensor of the sport will fit on the esteem head #11100-65G00!

the 2.0 Vitara uses head #11100-65G00 the same as the esteem....
so its safe to say that the cam sensor #33100-77E20 from the sport will fit the vitara head.

I took the cap off the new one whilst fitted to ensure it was actually being driven by the camshaft & it's not that. The trigger wheel looks identical with the same size cutouts for the 4 main marks & the fine ones appear to be the same also.

I'll get some pics of the new CMP sensor but essentially it looks identical to the one above.

Any idea of what's the missing piece in this puzzle would be greatly appreciated before I burn the lot to the ground.

[Scrawny]

Is it as simple as pinouts on the plug different?

[atari4x4]

Not sure on that one Scrawn, it could be a possibility but with 4 wire to choose from there are a lot of combinations to try & I don't want to fry the internals if I get it wrong, hence me seeking advice from the AZ brains trust.








The other option, is to part the bloody thing out & it's crossed my mind quite a few times over the last couple of weeks it's been off the road.

[Scrawny]

Can you easily see the internals of the sensor? There must be a way to work out what pin is what, for both sensors

[atari4x4]

The actual sensor inside the housing is sealed from what I can work out and looks like this, stolen from here: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OEM-MODULE-R ... 1e6b0317a5



That one on ebay has a different part number RSB-14 9707 stamped on it compared to my OEM one which has RSB-14 7624, the replacement had RSB-14 stamped on it only, to get to it I'll have to disassemble the whole unit by the looks of it.

[fordem]

There was a J20A engined Vitara in the US, the SQ420 - available between 99 & 03 as a two door soft top. but it did not that use that sensor - putting that number into the Suzuki EPC does bring up the Aerio, Esteem & Sidekick Sport as the vehicles it fits.

I did note that they are very specific about the casting number in the ebay ad - which I find interesting, because Suzuki is equally specific with their part numbers - interchangeable parts from different manufacturers will not use the same number, so a 33100-77E20 cam position sensor is a 33100-77E20 cam position sensor and should work, regardless of what other numbers may appear on it.

Since the sensor has the same part number and does not work, I would assume it to be defective - contact the seller and tell him rather than mucking around with it.

[atari4x4]

Thanks fordem!!

Are there any test I can do with a mulitmeter to confirm that it's faulty, I have the 2 sitting sensors on the bench?

[fordem]

See if this helps - it's from the FSM supplement for the SY418 (Baleno/Esteem) - please note - there may be differences in the coil packs used, as some vehicles have a separate ignitor module (2 pin coil packs) and others have the ignitors in the coil packs (3 pin coil packs)

Looking a little more closely it doesn't seem to give test measurements for the cam position sensor - you probably can't test it with a multi-meter - if you have access to a scope, put it back on the car and look at the position & reference signals - see if they pulse.

[atari4x4]

looking at that section it's a 2 wire coil pack & mines a 3 wire, but everything else looks very similar, will double check when it stops raining here.

i've shot an email off to the mob i got it from & in the mean time i'll get it over to a good auto elec i know on the other side of town to see if he can poke at it with a scope.

[atari4x4]

I wonder if it is a simple difference in pin out problem... as it just doesn't throw any sort of tacho signal when cranking. I haven't had a chance to take it to an auto elec yet.

this is my plug with Blue, Green, Red & Black at the bottom


taken from fordems pdf above, Red/Blue, Yellow/Green, Yellow/Red & Violet (I think thats what V is) on the bottom

[fordem]

I don't see why the pinout should be different - like I said earlier - as far as Suzuki is concerned a 33100-77E20 cam position sensor is a 33100-77E20 cam position sensor, so if the pin out is in fact different, then your supplier screwed up.

I don't know if you noticed it, but originally I didn't say where the pdf came from, and I later edited the post to say it was from a Baleno/Esteem manual (I don't have anything specific to the SV420G), but again they supposedly use the same sensor, and should be similar..

[dungbeetle]

sorry cant help your problem gus, but i know your pain. i have never had so much trouble sourcing parts for a vehicle til i bought this sv420 for the wife. no one supplies anything for it!!
i wouldnt bother parting it tho. old mate gavvy is struggling to sell anything!!

[Rhinoman]

I reckon the new one is faulty. RSB-14 should be the OE manufacturer's part number, the other number should be a batch number or date code. Do you get a CMP fault code while cranking?

[fordem]

To see that fault code, you'll need to crank with the diagnostic jumper in place.

[atari4x4]

will give it a go tomorrow... my poor starter motor has copped a hiding.

still waiting to hear back from the mob in the US, i guess with the 4th of July shindig they'll all be on holidays?

[Rogue_Ant]

Gents,
I'm trying to adapt the 33100-77E20 D4Y94-01A CAS for my project, but have not been able to find the pin-out for it.
As I understand, this is the OEM Hitachi sensor for the J20a. The sensor I have looks exactly like the one pictured in the first post.
Does anyone know off-hand which pins are what? And is the CAS being supplied +5volts or +12volts?

Thanks,

-Joshua

[Rogue_Ant]

Ok, so I figured out how to wire the CAS. The CAS signals need a pull-up resistor. I used a 10kOhm resistor, and appears to be fine.
So for anyone future searches:

[atari4x4]

thanks Rogue_Ant will have to have another play around with mine over the xmas break.

[datso]

Did you solve this issue?

[atari4x4]

nah, got side tracked with the blagon...

[Rhinoman]

Can you take some measurements from that sensor please? I wonder if it would bolt to the back of a Baleno coil pack motor.

[atari4x4]

can do, what measurements are you after?

[Rhinoman]

The distance between the bolt hole centres and the diameter of the shaft where the O ring is would be a good start thanks.

[Rhinoman]

When this came up before I was talking to someone (RogueAnt I think) about this. These sensors are quite common on Japanese vehicles and it looks like it might be possible to adapt on onto the back of an early 1.6 16V camshaft which could make it a good sensor for a Jimny conversion using a modified disc, maybe an alternative to having to fit the 1.3 camshaft. Looking around I have found a picture of one bolted to a G13B so maybe Suzuki use a standard mounting for distributors.

[atari4x4]

Rhinoman wrote:

The distance between the bolt hole centres and the diameter of the shaft where the O ring is would be a good start thanks.

i'll be back out in the shed tomorrow, will report back.

[atari4x4]

let us know if these are any help?

shaft diameter = 36mm




bolt spacing = 85mm

[GND_ISLANDBOY]

atari4x4 wrote:

I wonder if it is a simple difference in pin out problem... as it just doesn't throw any sort of tacho signal when cranking. I haven't had a chance to take it to an auto elec yet.

this is my plug with Blue, Green, Red & Black at the bottom


taken from fordems pdf above, Red/Blue, Yellow/Green, Yellow/Red & Violet (I think thats what V is) on the bottom

Hey what was the end result of this thread??

[Chop]

Im pretty sure its is still a lawn ornament ?

[atari4x4]

It still starts & runs