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Vitara Front Strut Measurements
https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34439		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  bigrig91 [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Vitara Front Strut Measurements
Front Suspension.....I have been thinking and planning whats to come for the front. The car will be road driven for then next 6 mnths plus so SAS is legally out of the question.

I have been measuring struts/coil overs for acceptable open and closed lengths as well as travel and relatively easy bolt in application. All my measurements at the moment are rough, nothing 100%. All measurements have been taken with std springs and std lengths struts. (strut measurement from top bolt hole centre to dip below thread on shaft)

I havent taken a proper measurement for full bump yet. All measurements are shock travel not wheel travel.

STD lenght struts = 390 open 260 closed 5.2" travel
OME = 429 open 243 closed 7.4" travel
Ironman = 430 open 235 closed 7.8" travel

STD strut at STD spring ride height strut measurement = 375
NO strut at STD Spring Droop = 495
NO strut NO spring BUMP = ??? Rough guess 255 ish
Rough Guess on MAX shock travel 240mm Or 9.6inchs (Not neccesarily safe cv wise etc)

I am hopeing to only lift the car 30mm and add diff drop brackets to be kind to the cvs. I am aiming for roughly 30% to 50% of shock compression at ride height, Strut length at proposed ride height being 405mm. There fore, a strut with say 8" of travel, 40% of compression = 80mm. MAX lenght strut of 495 - 80mm = 415mm. This provides from an 8 inch travel shock, 80mm of droop and 160mm of up travel from ride height.

However, with an ironman/ome... 405mm ride height = 15mm of droop and 170mm of up travel.

So, i can get certain struts made/have a go at making them myself but these cost more than the 110-227 price range of iron man/ome. I will be cutting a couple of struts up through the week to see if any are suitable to run an inverted monotube insert. Other options are to remove existing coil and strut mounts and fab coil over mounts but for the travel vs amount of work i dont think its worth it. A bolt in job would be ideal for alot of people including me.

Obviously you can add in the strut top flip and spacers etc but my brain hurts from just this little bit of thought....

Let me know if this seems do able or if its a fail as well. Cheers
Author:  Built4thrashing [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
Considering the Vit and GV use the same strut this might work for them both.


Ill be watching your results closely
Author:  bigrig91 [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
Yeh mate technically it will be identical although for a better ride you might want to change damping etc. I can get a new gv strut that would need minor mods and the lengths are 515mm open and 265mm. Would say i would need to limit droop as this would bind and pop cvs etc. Good option though.
Author:  Built4thrashing [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
Where can i get these mythical struts? and how much.

The thing that is limiting my setup is the strut being too short to allow for full travel.

Im actually looking at making a strut top spacer that will drop the top mount by about 30mm and still retain the strut brace.
Author:  bigrig91 [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
For a brand new custom build job i have been quoted roughly 800-1200 a corner hahah but that is remote resovoir and heavy duty.

Modifying your current strut with a monotube insert would be around the 400 a corner mark, less if you can do the work yourself (im looking into it)

Finding another strut close enough lenght and travel etc would be the cheapest option, the main mod i could see being required is the mountin holes on the clevice. All that i have found are 60mm centres, the struts on ours are 75mm centres. Weld the hole shut, re drill and allow for camber adjustment when drilling the new hole!!! Too easy haha.

Another thing i would like to measure are the extreme struts from ODA1. But i cant get on to him. I think these still have the 7.8" of travel but have a longer shaft therefore at a higher ride height allow more droop.
Author:  Built4thrashing [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
Get on here http://suzuki-grandvitara.info/forum/index.php and look for him or just call them directly.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
why not PM him on here :? memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3014
Author:  Fatzook [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
Don't forget that the strut is being used to hold the hub/ knuckle/ wheel captive. Simply buying a strut that is longer is not the only thing that need be considered.

The piston ( shaft ) in a longer strut will be more prone to deflection under load. You may need to look at buying struts that have a larger piston diameter to counteract the extra load. Also the ball joint at the base of the A-arms has limited travel. Bottoming this out due to excessive down travel could break it.
Author:  bigrig91 [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
Fatzook wrote:
Don't forget that the strut is being used to hold the hub/ knuckle/ wheel captive. Simply buying a strut that is longer is not the only thing that need be considered.

The piston ( shaft ) in a longer strut will be more prone to deflection under load. You may need to look at buying struts that have a larger piston diameter to counteract the extra load. Also the ball joint at the base of the A-arms has limited travel. Bottoming this out due to excessive down travel could break it.


Yeh the arms/camber/cv issue is completely another ball game. I have chosen the lengths to try and prevent having to modify any of this for now. The strut will either be fully extended or limited by a strap etc before the arms or ball joint get a chance to bind or bottom out. Im not chasing heaps of down travel in the front Just enough to get it working nice over bumps. Anything has got to be an improvement over standard. I will hopefully be keeping the sway bar in but see how that goes.
Author:  oohsam [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
Do you need to diff drop brackets for a 30mm lift?...surley not?
Author:  Fatzook [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
oohsam wrote:
Do you need to diff drop brackets for a 30mm lift?...surley not?


Given that he is looking for maximum down travel, it would be advisable.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
U can get about 40mm extra down travel safely
Add what ever length u drop ur diff and this is the new lenght u want the struts to be
Author:  DarkHorse [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
FWIW - OME strut plus 2" spacer is too much for CVs at full droop even with Calmini diff drops (I think they're about 1.5".) I've been snapping them like twigs.
Image
Image
Author:  atari4x4 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
how many have you munched darky & were they inners or outer CV's?
Author:  twitchy [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
What is the legality with a SAS???????? can it be done leagally?????
Author:  bigrig91 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
I am not Just looking for downtravel. The main thing i want to achieve is alot better tuning ability and at ride height the shock being compressed roughly 40%.

I will only be running 225/75's and im not sure but i dont think the loads that i am putting on them will be the same. There should be less full lock revving and bouncing up things and more smooth throttle fast undulations..

I have had a win in this department today so stay tuned.......
Author:  Chop [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
twitchy wrote:
What is the legality with a SAS???????? can it be done leagally?????


I'm very sceptical of the bolt on jobs being legal on the mainland. I know here in south australia you'd have no chance.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
So u have 90 mm extra down and ur safe spot is about 70
I have 70mm spacers and i dont do cv unless tring to drive massive ledges
Author:  bigrig91 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
got_bar_work wrote:
So u have 90 mm extra down and ur safe spot is about 70
I have 70mm spacers and i dont do cv unless tring to drive massive ledges


Yeh mate thats it. Do you think i should shorten it up a bit? I am yet to take proper bump measurements and i am still at std coils. I will aim for roughly 80mm on droop i think.

I have found a really good bloke with the skills and knowledge to knock some up for me. Fully adjustable. Roughly $300 a side. Good deal i think. Will try them out and work out from there on what the plan is.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
I reckon this is where the different geometry of the SV's will start coming into play a bit, the engine crossmember is heaps different (shallower)

Darky have you got a pic of the CV on level ground with the calmini kit + OME's... we're pretty much running the same set up bar from my GV 2.5" cal springs (which gave me 4" of lift originally), I'll try & find a shot at full droop.

Image
Author:  got_bar_work [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
Go for the longest closed length u can get in there then just run a adjustable limiting strap
U will want a limit strap anyway to protect ur 600dollar struts
I have the most diff drop u can do before u need to move the motor up ( sump has had some loving with pinon ther so close)
I run stock xl7 struts with 70mm extentions ( not rocomended ) till i get some new struts
Thats about the most i can safely getaway with
I have steering stop way out as well
The more steering lock u get the less droop u can have
I run alot of lift on a very heavy car and im prety bad with the right foot
I pretty happy with my cv but it is allways on my mind
Ps a 2l should be able to get away with more drop as the shaft is longer
Author:  bigrig91 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
atari4x4 wrote:
I reckon this is where the different geometry of the SV's will start coming into play a bit, the engine crossmember is heaps different (shallower)

Darky have you got a pic of the CV on level ground with the calmini kit + OME's... we're pretty much running the same set up bar from my GV 2.5" cal springs (which gave me 4" of lift originally), I'll try & find a shot at full droop.

Image


I hope we have some advantages with the wider stance, crossmember etc.

Sorry but does the lift play a part in cv angles?
Author:  bigrig91 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
got_bar_work wrote:
Go for the longest closed length u can get in there then just run a adjustable limiting strap
U will want a limit strap anyway to protect ur 600dollar struts
I have the most diff drop u can do before u need to move the motor up ( sump has had some loving with pinon ther so close)
I run stock xl7 struts with 70mm extentions ( not rocomended ) till i get some new struts
Thats about the most i can safely getaway with
I have steering stop way out as well
The more steering lock u get the less droop u can have
I run alot of lift on a very heavy car and im prety bad with the right foot
I pretty happy with my cv but it is allways on my mind
Ps a 2l should be able to get away with more drop as the shaft is longer


Yeh mate i was always thinking a limiting strap would be the go anyway. My car will be as light as possible, hoping under 1350kgs. Its all trial and error anyway ill take some more accurate measurements and get a set of these struts made up and test them out. Fully adjustable will be the best part. Can make them remote resovoir but the races i will be donig eventually will be 30mins max anyway.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
the more lift the more CV angle at ride height.

the other thing to look at seeing the direction you're heading would be hydraulic bumpstops, could replace the stock bump & mount with a bump can & nice hydro bumpstop.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
If u can get remote go for it
If ur racing for 30min ur going to want it
Have u been reading zuki world chalenge
They have boiled bilstiens and r now running hi temp race oil
Rears r problem aswell as they donthave the oil volume and over heat to much
Author:  bigrig91 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
got_bar_work wrote:
If u can get remote go for it
If ur racing for 30min ur going to want it
Have u been reading zuki world chalenge
They have boiled bilstiens and r now running hi temp race oil
Rears r problem aswell as they donthave the oil volume and over heat to much


Whats zuki world challenge? Ok yeh i thought it might be going overboard but ill chat to him and see what we can work out.

At the moment i am going to get the front to the height i want it and then work on the back. May be even making a new shock brace into the rear of the car for the back. Havent really looked yet though.
Author:  bigrig91 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
atari4x4 wrote:
the more lift the more CV angle at ride height.

the other thing to look at seeing the direction you're heading would be hydraulic bumpstops, could replace the stock bump & mount with a bump can & nice hydro bumpstop.


Yeh that is the next project to protect these lovely struts. I dont think i will have the length inside the coil though as i will only be lifting it 30-40mm. That is where a coil over would be handy i could completely get rid of the coil mount and put a bump there.
Author:  bigrig91 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
We without a doubt need to start up a zuki australia challenge!!!!! My car will be built for it haha. Thats awesome i will learn alot from watching some of those cars and there builds. Cheers mate.
Author:  DarkHorse [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
Sorry, forgot you were looking at cross-country racing instead of crawling. Smaller tyres will help too.

I'm three CVs from the last three trips - 2 pass side one drivers, all inner (diff side.) That's from rocks, steps/ledges on 31s and an intermittently working front locker (some momentum occasionally required.) I'm now also an inch wider than stock each side and running 2L CVs, so should be about same geometry as an SV. Haven't really tested it out at this width yet though.

This is the only shot I've got of the OME struts + spacers - it's pre camber adjustment, so a little misleading:
Image

If you got rid of the stock bumps there'd be room for some small hydro ones - FatZooks (Fox 2.0 I think) are nice and compact, 4" of soft travel then hard stop:
Image
Not cheap though!
Author:  atari4x4 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vitara Front Strut Measurements
no wonder you chew CV's :lol:
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