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Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed off
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Author:  ninjamoses [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed off
Anyone have any suggestions what might be preventing a H27A motor from turning over by hand?

To cut a long story short....
- Purchased a H27A from over east
- Have stripped it down to do the timing chain on it before I install it
- Went to turn the motor over to so the keyway on the crank is facing upwards (ready to do the timing chain) but turning the crank clockwise it only turns ~45 degrees max before it comes to a very hard stop. Trying to turn it the other way does the same thing... goes about 45 degrees and stops solid.

There is so little movement in the crank that the pistons are barely moving 1cm if that. The keyway is currently facing downwards, goes about 20 degrees either way from that point. 2 pistons seem to be at the bottom of the stroke, 2 in the middle, 2 at the top.

The resistance is definitely not coming from the heads/valvetrain - it is the crank itself which is hitting against something. There are no abnormal noises, the bores look clean from what I can see, the rods look straight etc etc. There is no flywheel bolted on at the moment so the crank should be free to turn over. I've taken the plugs out also. Looking down the plug holes I can't see anything out of the ordinary.

Is there something I'm overlooking? Is there perhaps a magical bolt somewhere which locks the engine for in transit or anything crazy like that?

Has got me stumped. Is it possible the timing chain has skipped some teeth and the pistons are hitting against the valves? If that was the case the engine should still turn over the opposite way though shouldn't it?
Author:  ninjamoses [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - suggestions?
FFS

Found the problem.

Image

So pissed off right now. This was supposedly meant to be a running motor with no abnormal noises. Entire motor is probably trashed.
Author:  Fatzook [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - suggestions?
I can't find any info on whether the H-series motors are interference or not. I know the G-series and J-series are non-interference....

how have you checked the bores/ Rods?
Author:  Fatzook [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
Snapped exhaust valve?
Author:  ninjamoses [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
Yeah H series are interference. And yep that is a snapped exhaust valve.

Image
Author:  Fatzook [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
Heads off, and see what lies beneath. :?

Shitty news mate. :cry:
Author:  fordem [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - suggestions?
Fatzook wrote:
I know the G-series and J-series are non-interference....


They are???

I know the 8v G13s aren't, but I'm pretty certain the 16v DOHC G13B is and I'm under the impression that all the J series are.

As for the H series, I've no personal experience, but I've seen enough pictures of piston tops to conclude that they are.

If it's got four valves per cylinder, I wouldn't chance it.
Author:  Fatzook [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
Yeah I forgot about the G13B. :roll:
Author:  ninjamoses [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
I've emailed the seller. It came from a wrecker with a 3 month warranty so will see what they say.
Very, very, very lame. Really wishing I had bought the other motor with less km right about now.

Time to drown my sorrows with a beer or ten. *sigh*
Author:  MacDaddy [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
What a bastard... they must have known it was like that... i hope they dont pull the old, " It was fine when it left us, must have happened in transit, or you did it... " BS... what a piss off... :(
Author:  Chop [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
Bugger :( Hopefully they deal with it properly, and have access to an equal or lesser km engine!
Author:  DarkHorse [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
That's shit mate. Hope the seller looks after you.

Can't catch a break with this thing, can you?
Author:  bigrig91 [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
Where did you end up buying it from mate?? i hope none of the ones that i recommended you i would feel terrible.
Author:  thesupervisor [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
shite thats the worst thing that could of happened
hope the wrecker comes to the party
Author:  sideways [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
AZ lynch mob?
Author:  ninjamoses [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
Wrecker is arranging for the motor to be picked up today and is sourcing a replacement for me.

There may be light at the end of the tunnel yet.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
good news, can wait to see this on the road 8)
Author:  ninjamoses [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
Nothing like doing a good half days work for absolutely no gain. :roll:
POS boat anchor is back together and on the crate again.

Image

Off to the post office now to pick up my KOH 2011 & 2012 DVDs. The day can only get better from here 8)
Author:  just_cruizin [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
And beer, don't forget beer
Author:  shandy92 [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
that sucks mate, its a pretty big screw up to. hopefully the next one is better.
Author:  ninjamoses [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
bigrig91 wrote:
Where did you end up buying it from mate?? i hope none of the ones that i recommended you i would feel terrible.


Nah it wasn't mate, was one I found in gumtree which just happened to be a wreckers. Mistakes happen though, as long as they come good with a replacement motor (one that works preferably :lol: ) I'll be happy enough.

New exedy clutch just rocked up as well which was the last thing I was waiting on. I wonder if its a pretty pink one like the ones they use in their adverts.

PS: King of the Hammers 2012 DVD is awesome 8)
Author:  Lockie666 [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
How much the motor cost, how much mileage it got on it?
Author:  ninjamoses [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
Was $1900 plus delivery and had 103,000km on the clock supposedly.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
i'd like to know how you snap a valve 8O
Author:  bigrig91 [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
oh thats good to hear. What is this king of the hammers you speak of. Googleing now.
Author:  MacDaddy [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
ninjamoses wrote:
Wrecker is arranging for the motor to be picked up today and is sourcing a replacement for me.

There may be light at the end of the tunnel yet.

Well that is good news, glad they came to the party on it, and will sort it out for you ! :D

atari4x4 wrote:
i'd like to know how you snap a valve 8O

X 2 8O
Author:  Dr_Snapid [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
What a shit. Nothing like the letdown of a long awaited toy not working when you unwrap it. Like a chick who gets her gear off then wont perform
Author:  atari4x4 [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
hey ninja any idea what the shipping weight was for the complete H27a?
Author:  ninjamoses [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
Courier dude said it was around 80kg when he dropped it off mate, not sure how accurate that was though. That was minus the flywheel and accessories, so just the long motor plus intake/injection.

Freight costs from over east ranged from $200 to $600, with the majority of them (ie. all but two) being between $500 - $600.
Author:  fordem [ Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crank not turning over - Mystery solved, FFS so pissed o
atari4x4 wrote:
i'd like to know how you snap a valve 8O


From what I've been told the heads are attached to the stem by friction welding - they apparently hold the head stationary and bring the rotating stem into contact with it - and defective welds do happen.

This came about during a discussion about a "dropped valve" (which is pretty much the same thing as what I see in the picture - the head is missing) on a G13B DOHC, except that this one happened at high rpms, resulting in the complete destruction of the #3 piston - we took the head of the valve, and the remnants of the piston out of the oil pan.
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