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PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
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Author:  also76 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
hey guys,

wondering if anyone in Perth is running toyota axles/diffs and wouldnt mind having a chat and possibly letting me come have a look at the set-up.
so much conflicting info around about the conversion, would be awesome to just be able to see it in person.


also, if anyone has experience using MQ patrol axles/diffs, havent seen alot of info on this conversion at all.



thanks for any help... and yes i have read the "Good Tech" write up on this.
Author:  Red89 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
What is it you wanted to know ?
Author:  also76 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
what lux to get the diffs from ? do i have to run bundy rear or is there a way around that ? what drive shafts are used/made up for this ?

each write up i have read has all sorts of different info. thats why instead of reading what people have done, id like to just have a look at a set up and go from there.
Author:  Red89 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Is it going to be driven on the road ? If it is going to be road driven are you hoping to get it engineered and licensed ? Are you going to put them in a LWB or SWB ?
Author:  also76 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
road driven for as long as i can, its far from a daily so the only time it would see road is to get to tracks and (hopefully) back again. that and taking it into the workshop.
i imagine one day it will end up becoming a trailer queen and looking something more like a buggy but for now my main goal is 33-35 tyres twin locked and mainly rocky driving (powerlines, brunswick etc.) and not to be replacing axles/driveshafts/diffs after every trip.

suspension wise im not 100% either ... saw people run lux leafs in rear ? but that a whole other can of worms for now
Author:  alien [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Something to consider... with 35" rubber you're going to need to travel further to find a challenge. Right now your rig is awesome and very capable - so why the need to change it?
Author:  Red89 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Ok, first up Ive driven everything worth driving in WA on Sierra diffs and 33's including Bobs Hill and also competed in several comps with the only breakage being a hole in the fuel tank, the car never let me down ;)
also76 wrote:
what lux to get the diffs from ? Up to 35's any solid axle Lux diffs will do.

do i have to run bundy rear or is there a way around that ? If its SWB then you would be better off with the bundy diff as the pumpkin lines up better with the transfer output. If you use the Lux one they have been known to vibrate a bit with the centred pumkin. If its a LWB then you should be able to get away with a Lux one.

what drive shafts are used/made up for this ? Use Lux ones the bolt pattern on the flange is the same as a WT flange but the spot were the spigot sits needs to be bored out a little. I'm not 100% sure what years as some run a 2 piece rear shaft and double cardon joints. I got two stuffed Surf rears, cut the uni yokes off and welded them onto square shafts which isnt really recommended for road use.

each write up i have read has all sorts of different info. thats why instead of reading what people have done, id like to just have a look at a set up and go from there.

Personally with the suspension I would keep it simple and do Lux fronts in the rear and Sierra rears up front.
Author:  also76 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
not a bad point alien.

thanks red89 for the info, this is awesome.

im just about finished my 1.6 EFI conversion, then ill lift some more and fit 33x10.5 tyres... i have open front and locked rear and 5.14's so maybe ill stick with the stock diffs and axles for now and see how she goes... if something breaks i can always upgrade then.
Author:  Red89 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
also76 wrote:
not a bad point alien.

thanks red89 for the info, this is awesome.

im just about finished my 1.6 EFI conversion, then ill lift some more and fit 33x10.5 tyres... i have open front and locked rear and 5.14's so maybe ill stick with the stock diffs and axles for now and see how she goes... if something breaks i can always upgrade then.

No worries. My old setup was 1.3, 5.14 TC, 5.12 Diffs, Lockright front and rear, Double Tough Cromo front axle/cv's and 33's. 93zook is running 1.3, 6.5 TC, 5.12 Diffs, locked front and rear, cromo front axles/cv's and 33's and both our cars were and are very capable. For you I would suggest doing a rear up front, maybe custom rear springs, 4.something diffs, locked front and cromo axle/cv's. If you keep it low, on narrow 33's and reasonably straight and clean then you should be able to keep it on the road for longer which makes life a lot easier.
Author:  also76 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
yeah i was thinking SPOA with RUF and longer rear leaves (not to sure what to use yet) ... any ideas on rear springs ?

really like your idea with keeping it simple, going to suss out chromos and get this suspension work started. currently its just 2inch spring lift.
Author:  SierraDan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
You should get a front locker before you do any other drastic mods.

The different between rear locked and twin locked is like taking a commodore in the bush and taking a buggy.

For rear leaves use hilux fronts, hilux rears, feroza rears, mazda/ke corolla chop suey(search). Whatever you make fit.
Author:  zukmeista [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Because ^^^ this guy isn't very helpful :roll:
http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2174&hilit=longer+springs


pompoms
Author:  SierraDan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Did I say something wrong? Pretty useful info there.
Author:  also76 [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Thanks again guys. never would have thought or even searched Mazda leafs ! But they sound like a great combo and with lengths like that it'll flex crazy with spoa.

If I lock front it will most likely be auto locker. . . How bad is th steering ?? Still really useable but just heavy/needs getting used yo ? Worst comes to worst I guess you can just unlock front hubs.
Author:  SierraDan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
It's harder but you work out how to make the best of it. Better with an auto locker though.
Author:  Jazzor [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
With all these other mods you are looking at I'm sure you can sort out power steering to make the steering with a front locker great :)

Also Red89 didn't mention either of those 4wds were spoa, so don't jump on that bandwagon just yet.

Front chromos are ~$250 from LRO at the moment which is very reasonable.
Author:  Red89 [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
93zook was SPOA but is now coiled rear, I was SPUA. For the work required to make it nice to drive I don't really see the point with SPOA when you can get SPUA working just as well, check out SierraDans and Birkos build threads. I would budget for power steer as well.
Author:  masterA [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Apart from lockers, power steering is THE best mod you can do to a sierra!!!
Author:  also76 [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Anyone got a link to a build thread using 33 with spring under ?? Wouldn't think you would get clearance without body lift and I'm not to sure I want to do body lift. Would rather have the spoa and huge flex.
Author:  SierraDan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Probs will be too late for your liking, i will be starting a thread 33's SPUA.
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Read up on Virtual lift.
you Dont need a body lift or spoa for 33s

and sorry but spoa isnt gonna give you huge flex. you will just spend more time on your roof
Author:  Red89 [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Bluesuzy was on 33's I think, 31zook was too at some stage ?? This is mine, sprung under, custom 3 inch springs, extended shackles and 3 inch bumpstop extensions, it needed the front of the front wheel arch to be cut to clear the tyre more.

Image
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
tanshi wrote:
Read up on Virtual lift.
you Dont need a body lift or spoa for 33s

and sorry but spoa isnt gonna give you huge flex. you will just spend more time on your roof



X2. SPOA is a bit of a curse. Sure it gives you 5" of lift, but to get hektic flex requires overcompressing the springs which kills them, so once the bumpstops are placed correctly, there's no gain in travel.

It's enormously hard to make springs last with SPOA. SPOA places very large leverage loads on the springs, so a higher spring rate is required to stop the springs from wrapping up under acceleration or braking. This means that SPOA tends to ride more harshly, and as the springs have to have less free arch to avoid excessive lift, there's less droop available.

There's plenty of photos out there of SPOA cars with what looks to be hektic flex, but often they aren't compressing the suspension very far, so whilst the drooped wheel sits a long way down, the compressed wheel isn't getting all that far up into the guard, so it's a bit of an optical illusion.

In any case, 33's CERTAINLY don't need a SPOA. In fact, any tyre you can gear and drive reliably on suzuki axles doesn't require a SPOA for clearance.

Here's a couple of cars running over 33" tyres SPUA.

Yes, they are all virtual lifted. Yes, all but one runs a body lift. These cars were all lots of work to build, but they are all functional, stable and super capable. I don't know why anyone would eant to run a car higher than necessary to fit the tyre size they chose.

Gregc - 35" krawlers
Image

Mitch - 35" krawlers, no body lift
Image

Trolley tug - 35.5" swampers
Image

piggles (all leaf front springs in the front, 34" swampers)
Image

CJ, 34" swampers
Image

And in this photo, you can see Jonfromhamilton's car running a 33 10.5 KM2 8) third from the back. The two cars behind it are running 31 10.5's with pretty much the same lift combination minus the cutting.

Image

It's interesting how many people get put off by guard cutting but won't think twice about running heaps of lift, messing with cutting off shock mounts, moving spring pads, messing with the steering etc. There's no reason to run a 33" tyre unless you are interested in difficult terrain, where the likelihood of body damage is high. A neat guard cut isn't really an issue, even more so if you're going to stuff it into a bank, flop it on its side, or crew the sills up on a rock and mess the body up eventually anyway.
Author:  also76 [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Awesome advice guys. I have no hang ups cutting guards that seems a good way to when combined with ruf and possibly longer leafs in the rear. Should still see a lot of travel. Cost me a lot less and be more capable without rolling.

Thanks heaps.
Author:  SierraDan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
:lol:

Way to recite what i Pm'd
Author:  also76 [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Haha ! Yeah I just read through that Dan ! Cheers for that.
Author:  birko [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
Quote:
CJ, 34" swampers


Any more pics/info on this rig, love the tray setup
Author:  neofitou [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
CJ's is a stalled build, theres no engine in it so it will sit a bit lower. Hopefully he will get back to it, its not far off being finished.
I think there is a bit more info in a thread somewhere, Steve uses it for an example often, its very well built. Steve?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PERTH ... Toyota Axle's
neofitou wrote:
CJ's is a stalled build, theres no engine in it so it will sit a bit lower. Hopefully he will get back to it, its not far off being finished.
I think there is a bit more info in a thread somewhere, Steve uses it for an example often, its very well built. Steve?


That's a pretty fair summation. CJ has run out of time/money/interest to finish it so it rots beside my shed. It was a pretty interesting build though. He spent truckloads of money on it.

Steve.
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