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Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
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Author:  JasonSelmes [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
Hi Folks!

1991 Vitara JLX SWB - 155,000km on the clock -------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuZ3qlGEog

1)First question is a noticed a few drips of water outside the exhuast his morning when i started her up. It was steam coming out of the exhaust for around 30 seconds or so. IS this normal fair?

2)Noticed today I stopped off at Subway for lunch and half hour later we left to go home and I started the Car. It was a little windy and I noticed a puff of smoke the wind pushed down the side of the car. Is this bad?

Car does not blow smoke under power/load and it doesn't smoke at all after that 1 puff of smoke. My mate followed behind me and said its not blowing smoke when driving.

If its valve stem seals what can i expect to pay to fix them up? Or is there a better option?

Also there is no over heating problems at yet.
Author:  Scrawny [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Valve Stem Seals?
Check oil and water levels regularly, if its not using either then don't worry about it.

To get a workshop do to the stem seals will be upward of $1,500.
Author:  JasonSelmes [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Valve Stem Seals?
Thought id do a video on it! Seems to be blue smoke on start up with some steam. No water or condensation seen here. But sometimes it can take a minute or 2 until water forms.

More concerned about the smoke at this stage especially since I have a trip down south next week doing 900kms each way!~!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuZ3qlGEog
Author:  Scrawny [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
These motors are prone to crack blocks and heads too. Not going to be an issue until it starts chewing oil and coolant and/or overheating
Author:  JasonSelmes [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
Scrawn wrote:
These motors are prone to crack blocks and heads too. Not going to be an issue until it starts chewing oil and coolant and/or overheating


Ill keep checking it.

What happens when it starts chewing oil or coolant? Do I get a rebuild? Whats the general consensus?

Also whats is the cost for either getting a rebuild or a new engine put in? I am planning on keeping this car and doing a few things to it so I am sure down the track I am either going to have to rebuild it or get a reconditioned engine put it. Whats the costs generally speaking going either way?

cheers
Jason
Author:  Scrawny [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
Depends what happens. If it has cracked the head you can buy new ones to replace it. If it's cracked the block you'd be better off finding a second hand engine. If it just needs valve guides and seals then it will be a much cheaper exercise, and if you can do the work it'll be cheaper again
Author:  JasonSelmes [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
Scrawn wrote:
Depends what happens. If it has cracked the head you can buy new ones to replace it. If it's cracked the block you'd be better off finding a second hand engine. If it just needs valve guides and seals then it will be a much cheaper exercise, and if you can do the work it'll be cheaper again


If i take it to the shop can they advise if its a cracked block or head without to much fuss? Id at least like to know the issue first prior to making a decision down the track. If its the valve seals I may just go ahead and get it down in the early new year.
Author:  Scrawny [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
Any competent mechanic should be able to diagnose it for you for minimal cost. If they're smart they'll give you a quote too so you can budget/plan ahead.
Author:  Mike57 [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
Just something else to think about. If you have blue smoke (and it's hard to tell in the video) then it is oil. If it is valve stem oil seals then you will get the smoke when you take off after sitting at the traffic lights as well as start up. Any time the oil has a chance to leak past the seals you will get the smoke so let it idle after driving for a while and then give it some revs and see if you stiull have smoke.

If you only get it at start up then are you sure it is blue and not a whitish smoke which might just be a choke issue and nothing to worry about. Depending upon where you live some condensation in the exhaust can be normal but in the video you have things on so maybe you are in Qld?

As scrawn says a pressure test of the colling system and a compression test on the cylinders should be able to tell you if you have anything serious. If it is a very small crack somewhere then this maight be ahrder to find but keep an eye on both the oil and the water levels and look for oil in the water and water in the oil.

Another test is to see if any of the spark plugs look fouled or are a different colour to the rest.

If you are having trouble working out if there is an issue then it is probably OK for your trip.

Good luck.
Author:  JasonSelmes [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
Mike57 wrote:
Just something else to think about. If you have blue smoke (and it's hard to tell in the video) then it is oil. If it is valve stem oil seals then you will get the smoke when you take off after sitting at the traffic lights as well as start up. Any time the oil has a chance to leak past the seals you will get the smoke so let it idle after driving for a while and then give it some revs and see if you still have smoke.

If you only get it at start up then are you sure it is blue and not a whitish smoke which might just be a choke issue and nothing to worry about. Depending upon where you live some condensation in the exhaust can be normal but in the video you have things on so maybe you are in Qld?

As scrawn says a pressure test of the cooling system and a compression test on the cylinders should be able to tell you if you have anything serious. If it is a very small crack somewhere then this might be harder to find but keep an eye on both the oil and the water levels and look for oil in the water and water in the oil.

Another test is to see if any of the spark plugs look fouled or are a different colour to the rest.

If you are having trouble working out if there is an issue then it is probably OK for your trip.

Good luck.


Nah mate I am in sydney. I just love wearing my thongs Armsup

I will do some tests filming the exhuast with some ideas you have given. My mate said he hasnt seen smoke when idling at lights but he cant be sure. I will test it over the coming weeks. I did check the oil whic is 5 weeks old and it doesnt seem to be eating oil at all. Still in the same spot as it was when i checked it. Just under the full line.

Ive done a fair bit to it in the last month or so since Ive owned it.

1. Rear and front Diff oil
2. Manual Trans Oil
4. Transfer Case Oil
5. Crankcase Engine Oil + filter
6. Air Filter
7. Fuel Filter
8. New Thermostat
8. Full radiator flush and refill.
9. New Leads
10. Dizzy cap + Rotor Button
11. New Spark plugs
12. Rear Tail Shaft Seal
13. New Front brake pads(old ones were half meat but I changed them anyway)
Author:  just_cruizin [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
what no indicator fluid????

What you've done is about what most people do when then buy a second hand car with no records, and some still do it regardless as they don't, wisely, trust the establishment that did the work. Big dealerships are the worst as they get the 2nd year apprentise who is normally these days too busy face booking his girlfriend to actually replace the oil and then just ticks the sheet, hell he might get oil down the sleeve of his overalls.

I vote valve stem seals
Author:  JasonSelmes [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
Indicator fluid?

Yeah I say you never know what the situation of a second hand vehicle is so you might as well spend $300 and service the car that way you know what the situation is and where you are at. If i dont know the history and even if i did I would still replace the oils and flush the system etc because you never know what is legit and what isnt. Better to be safer than sorry! Preventative maintenance can solve issues that could have been prevented.

I am having a guess it is the Valve Stem Seals but I might use the camera throughout the week to test the exhaust as it shows what is happening at the rear on start up. I also might do as scrawn said, get the car up to operating temps then let it idle after i get home from work then give it some revs and see what comes out the exhuast.

Are valve stem seals important to do quickly or it will just get worse as time goes on? Just dont want to screw anything else up in the process.
Author:  Scrawny [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
Stem seals you can just put up with, they won't do damage to anything else
Author:  Mike57 [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
That is right. A little oil in the cylinders won't do any harm. On a lot of cars you used to be able to replace the seals by putting compressed air into the cylinders and leave the head on while you change the seals. Not sure about Suzuki's and my experience is about 30 years old now so maybe engines have moved on a bit! That was quite a cheap way to replace them.
Author:  alien [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
i had the same thing when the stem seals in my g16 went rock hard (mine were faulty though as they were only 5000km old)... lucky for me, mine was under warranty and fixed free of charge, but its one of those jobs where if you're going to go as far as to replace them, you might as well do a whole heap of other shit to the engine (ie: rebuild it) while its happening.

i HATED that it blew smoke.. same as a leak... i just can't stand that, so i'd get it fixed just to alleviate my borderline OCD in that area. lol
Author:  christover1 [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
I used soft rope, fed in thru spark plug hole,
then a little upward pressure from piston held up the valves.
Can only do one cylinder at a time, but it does work.
Author:  JasonSelmes [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
Here is a video I did this morning - COLD Start

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioO26FyUalQ

After it warmed up I and drove to work here it is warmed up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEGEL4pVTtk
Author:  offroadjack [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing Smoke On Start Up - With Video!
first of, is yours a carby or the EFI 1.6?
when its cold outside there is usual some grey smoke "condensation" from the exhaust but should be gone after the engine is warmed up, water out the exhaust is also not something to worrie about (condensation trapped in the exhaust)
the second vid tho there is still some grey/white smoke coming from it.
they do crack heads and blocks if they have been overheated and is hard to tell if the head is cracked.
what you can do is when your coming home leave the car overnight, in the morning take all the sparkplugs out and have someone hold a white piece of paper or cardboard closely over the sparkplug holes while you crank it over a few times, that wil show if there is any water in one of the cilinders that leaked out overnight. if so, there's a good chance it's the head or if your lucky just a headgasket.
with the block you should see coolant seeping out while running as you look with a torch, it's just (usually) above the startermotor in between the cilinders 3 and 4 but in case of a cracked block you should be loosing coolant rapidly.
most shonky yards will know these problems with the vitaras and try to seal it up with all sorts of chemicals put in the cooling systems that should last till your warranty is over. don't get too freaked out just yet until it's diagnosed by someone you can trust. don't know where you are located but i'm in SA and have worked for suzuki for many years and know what makes them tick. good luck, just try what i explained earlier and we'll take it from there
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