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Yet another G16B conversion.....
https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38675		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Virt [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Yet another G16B conversion.....
Yup, as per title, I will be installing a 2000 Baleno G16B engine (coil packs) to my SJ413 (leaf sprung)
I have BenTs' adapter kit.
I have put together a little bit of a shopping list/things I need to do and if I'm feeling fancy I will dump some pics in as I progress.
The list is for my own reference also, I will be researching these things myself but its nice to have a few tips from people who have already done it.
So, here we go: (underlined stuff is sorted)

1. New thermostat - may as well do this cause I hear its a bitch to access after installation
2. Fuel Pump - I have an external EFI pump and a filter coming in
3. Fuel tank - As per above I plan to use the original tank with an external pump, if anyone has already done this, please let me know if there are any nasty surprises!
4. HP fuel line - will be using the original steel pipes and putting EFI fuel line everywhere else
5. Temp gauges - I will use the Baleno gauge and sensor, anyone see a problem with this?
6. Thermostat housing - Gonna chuck a swift housing on from suzistore.
7. Modify Sump & oil Pickup - I need to cut a section of the sump from the Baleno engine, graft it to the original sump and strap it on, same deal for the pickup
8. Extractors - This car is not body lifted and I do not plan to do so unless absolutely necessary, has anyone had any success with any particular extractors? I hear some brands will fit while others don't.
9. Accelerator cable - I hear I need a Vitara cable, they seem expensive or otherwise hard to get, will a generic cable suit? (the BenT kit instructions tell me a standard 413 cable will work with an 8VG16 I wonder if its the same with a 16V?)
10. Starter motor - Gonna grind down the 1.3 starter and slap 'er in
11. Radiator - Going to keep the stock 1.3 radiator unless someone can convince me I need a bigger one.
12. Loom/ECU - will need to me modified, I have all the info on that one I think
13. Instruments - I have the Baleno Dash, I will have to transplant the tacho. I will either make a VSS (or get a vit one) and stick it into the current speedo or install my own gearbox VSS and put the Bal speedo in!
14. Power steering/air con - Power steer would make rock crawling SO much easier, aircon, well meh, its a soft top so no big deal, is fitting power steering a massive job? should I wait till after the engine swap to do it or is it crap loads easier to do it while the donk is out?
15. Alternator - is it a good idea to upgrade to a higher amperage alt? or not really worth it?


Well, I think that's everything!
Author:  zukmeista [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Everything you need to know should be in here.http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6423
Author:  jimbo_jones [ Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
You will need a vss out of a vitara or swift but not all swifts have them vitara is your best bet or you can make one there's a thread on it in the good tech section
The baleno vss is in the gearbox
Author:  Virt [ Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
jimbo_jones wrote:
You will need a vss out of a vitara or swift but not all swifts have them vitara is your best bet or you can make one there's a thread on it in the good tech section
The baleno vss is in the gearbox

Oh! Thanks for that, I might see if I can make one then, I'm fairly handy with electronics.
Author:  shark [ Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
I used a mid nineties swift thermostat housing.
Fitted perfectly no modifications needed.
I'm on week two of my conversion so if you want to know anything ask away.
Author:  Ace [ Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Am I to understand these baleno G16's dont have the security key issue? I have just picked up a 2000 vit one thats the rwd versions of these - I have a feeling I stumbled across my "deal of the year". Have around 90% of the loom and steering colum n keys if it is required - but hoping its not
Author:  Virt [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Ace wrote:
Am I to understand these baleno G16's dont have the security key issue? I have just picked up a 2000 vit one thats the rwd versions of these - I have a feeling I stumbled across my "deal of the year". Have around 90% of the loom and steering colum n keys if it is required - but hoping its not

Ive never heard of any security key issues on any G16 conversions so far, sounds like you got lucky!

shark wrote:
I used a mid nineties swift thermostat housing.
Fitted perfectly no modifications needed.
I'm on week two of my conversion so if you want to know anything ask away.

No worries, then I will try to find one of those, is your car body lifted?
Author:  Virt [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
DIY VSS link:
http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtop ... 17&t=10121
Its just a reed switch! piss easy!
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Even easier to just bolt in a vitara/swift speedo though.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38755

Steve.
Author:  Teracis [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Or you could do what I'm planning to do and use the Baleno speedo and the VSS from the baleno gearbox (assuming you have the car) or jimny vss, cut the notches in the rear output flange of the transfer case and fit a jaycar vss kit under the dash so I can correct the speedo for different sized tyres.

Bit of work but since my rig is in a million pieces it's not going to add much effort as I have all the parts (bar jaycar box so far)
Author:  Virt [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Oooo I like that idea teracis, the way I don't end up with an inaccurate speedo, I don't have the Bal box but maybe I can get the jaycar kit and graft it on, is it essentially a hall effect/optical sensor? Or is it the old reed switch/magnet design?
Looks like I have a new research topic now!


EDIT: hrmmm after reading up on VSS a bit, it looks like manufacturers like to use a bunch of different VSS set-ups and dont really stick to a standard, unless we know exactly what the baleno speedo/ecu wants as a VSS input, it will be very hit and miss.

Might just stick with the original DIY/vit VSS.
Author:  Teracis [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Yes but you've just said it yourself, you're going to stick to the vit VSS or DIY vss which is going to be fed into the Baleno ECU, that's no different to the Baleno VSS or jimny VSS outputting from the lugs you've cut into the transfer case output flange. It's probably more work than it's worth however as stated I have the parts for it that way, don't have a vit vss or even going to bother with the sierra speedo and reed switch, maybe I can make the whole baleno cluster work to my liking, not sure yet.

If it's the same as the jimny one it's 25 notches in the output flange (thanks joeblow) there's a thread on it somewhere, this is how the jimny guys running sierra transfers make their speedo work.

Good luck either way, I'm not far off this part of the project either, even though I've had the engine something like 12 months...
Author:  Virt [ Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
I did say might, as you said it looks like a lot more work.
You say that a Vit/DIY VSS is the same as a VSS from the Tcase output, is it? I would imagine that they would be different frequencies for different speeds as they're driven from two different locations.
For instance, lets say the baleno VSS is the same as jimny, 25 pulses per revolution.
From what I can gather, the speedo driven VSS is only one pulse per RPM.
These two VSS signals will be very different for the same speed, unless:
-The speedo magnet disc has 25 magnets on it, or:
-The speedo cable (and attached magnet) does 25 revolutions per one rev of the Tcase output.
-Or a combination of these two as there could be 2 or 3 or any number of magnets or even a different speedo cable ratio.

Not trying to start a debate or anything just thinking about it, maybe way too much! :P
Either way I decide to go, I would definitely be keen to see how your setup works out.

One more thing that grabbed my interest is if the Baleno G16B ECU and the Vit G16B ECU are the same and are expecting the same VSS input?
I know people have Baleno ECUs working perfectly fine with a Vit/DIY VSS but I wonder if the ECU is getting the right information?
Can anyone tell me exactly what the ECU uses the VSS signal for? something to do with fuel economy I hear.
Author:  JrZook [ Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Sierra/vit/swift etc have 4 magnetic poles built into the speedo disc, hence the reed switch will pulse 4 times per revolution of the speedo cable. Sierra speedo cable drive ratio is 2.85:1 in reference to the tcase output shaft.

VSS input to the ECU is relatively minor as far as I know. It's used to cut fuel on deceleration and bump up the idle speed once moving and most likely plays a part in the EGR operation. You wont notice a huge difference in fuel economy compared to running without one. In reference to the apparent "speed" differences between the baleno and vit/sierra VSS inputs I doubt you would notice much change at all in how the engine runs and economy.

Dan
Author:  Rhinoman [ Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Its a few years since I looked at the Baleno code but I don't think it affects the EGR but as I recall it does affect the IAC which is used to implement a 'dashpot effect' during deceleration.
Baleno and Vit ECUs are very different.
Author:  Rhinoman [ Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
JrZook wrote:
It's used to cut fuel on deceleration


I've heard this many times and I used to think that it was true but now I think thats its another myth from the kick-fix site - repeated so many times that its accepted as fact. The FSM states that the VSS is tested during fuel cut which would mean that it can't be one of the control inputs to that function; I'll have to try and log this on an ECU.
Author:  JrZook [ Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Hurmmmmmm so besides bumping the idle up through the IAC do you know what other effects it has James?
Author:  royce [ Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Rhinoman wrote:
JrZook wrote:
It's used to cut fuel on deceleration


I've heard this many times and I used to think that it was true but now I think thats its another myth from the kick-fix site - repeated so many times that its accepted as fact. The FSM states that the VSS is tested during fuel cut which would mean that it can't be one of the control inputs to that function; I'll have to try and log this on an ECU.


Though I am not smart enough for these types of chats watching mine it seems to always cut fuel on decel until 1500rpm no matter gear or speed, once you watch it on a laptop for a bit you can feel it easy enough driving around
Author:  Virt [ Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Well that was exactly the way info I was looking for, cheers for the input, in the end I think I will build a reed switch vss, then I know for sure it will work.
Author:  joeblow [ Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Or you could cheat and run a wire fron the crank angle sensor at the rear of the motor to the unput for the VSS. I've done that a couple of times on coil pack motors, works great and no need to mess with the cluster.
Author:  jimbo_jones [ Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
joeblow wrote:
Or you could cheat and run a wire fron the crank angle sensor at the rear of the motor to the unput for the VSS. I've done that a couple of times on coil pack motors, works great and no need to mess with the cluster.



really?? Im interested in this ant more info?
Author:  Virt [ Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Would probably do the trick but it wouldn't be vehicle speed just engine speed.
Author:  Rhinoman [ Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
JrZook wrote:
Hurmmmmmm so besides bumping the idle up through the IAC do you know what other effects it has James?


The FSMs don't give any real information but I'm looking at a 95 Geo metro (Suzuki Swift) ECU at the moment and it mainly seems to be used to determine if the vehicle is moving or has just come off idle while moving. A lot of the code hasn't been worked through yet but I can already see that it does affect injector PW, ignition timing, EGR valve operation and Canister Purge operation. Its definately used by the diagnostics as VSS has to be 0 or you can't use the control functions.

Fuel cut seems to be only when the idle switch is closed and the engine is decreasing from high RPM, you can certainly see it on the diagnostics with the vehicle stationary. I've just got a log of fuel cut so I'll check it out.
Author:  Virt [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Finally! engine arrive a couple days ago, now to tear apart the loom...
Author:  Ace [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
I imagine they are sought after bits but if you can find them for a good price / the more photos I look at the more convinced that "my" coil pack g16 top end is the same as the jiminy one from the coils on the head to the waterlines thermostat etc. The only difference I can find is that I am stuck with a dirty "hotwire" AFM where as the 1.3 has the map sensor.

Its prob cheaper to put a 1.6 block onto the 1.3 head than it is to get the 1600 haha.... then again its prob cheaper to supercharge the 1.3 ...
Author:  jimbo_jones [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
or use the manafolds of one of these if you can find them

Image
Author:  kenny.G345 [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
What is that intake pipe of jimbo_jones?
Author:  Ace [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Good sh#t Virt btw. I have the 6x6 garage getting started on monday and have literally 2 arm-fulls of loom, relays etc to spread out on "my side" for inspection. That looks very familar but not quite what I have Jimbo - whats it out of?
Author:  Virt [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Yeah man, chewing through it now, so much crap to remove!
Its hard to determine what you do and don't need but hey you can always re solder a wire...

Side question; I spoke to Suzistore today (do alot of conversions) about an alternative to cutting and welding the sump (grafting the 1.6 and 1.3 together) and oil pickup and they told me to just slap the 1.3 sump/pickup straight onto the 1.6, are they right?
Author:  Matthew [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another G16B conversion.....
Ace wrote:
whats it out of?


GV
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