sierrajim wrote:
ajsr wrote:
Gwagensteve wrote:
Nos? (I'm serious)
Steve
Steve
x2 im still thinking this as well
Doesn't your POS catch on fire without any help?
now your just being nasty
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| G16B trail POS turbo talk https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39599 |
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| Author: | sierrajim [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | G16B trail POS turbo talk |
So I've read a ton of threads here and around the interweb. Mostly based on people chucking 10+PSI of boost through their G16B or daily driving it, then having issues with bits falling apart. What I'm trying to ascertain is weather I can, reasonably reliably, turbo the 1.6 in my ute that does maybe 2-300km per year. And I don't mean 200-300km I mean 2-300km. I have a turbo here that I acquired off Fatzook some time ago, small GT17 as well as a variety of pint sized intercoolers in the shed at home. Points: 1. looking for more power, not looking to join Boostcruising and post dyno sheets on the net though. The 1.6 with the auto just lacks a bit of zip for me. 2. Engine conversion, though this would be ideal. My junk is already engineered. If this fails I'll look at something with more guts. 3. It rarely gets driven on road. 4. Boost should run 5-6PSI off this turbo from what I'm told. Does anyone know if the G13B and G16B manifolds can interchange? Long story short is that I'd like to know if I can fit this manifold onto my G16B http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stainless-Tu ... 19c989eae1 |
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| Author: | JrZook [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
This is a good read going by what your requirements are. http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=85570.0 You should be able to get safe-ish AFRs using a rising rate FPR then you just got to make sure it doesn't detonate as that is the real killer and where most DIY turbo builds have come apart. |
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| Author: | Ace [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
SS is usually thinish around 1.6 wall - stuck back together and braced a mates rx7 tt converted to a one BIG sucker manifold... You can get the 2 flanges cut and do a simple steampipe one, |
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| Author: | greyghost [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
that manifold is for a GTi 1.3B, you would need a Jimny 1.3B manifold. |
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| Author: | mnemonix [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
As above, that manifold wouldn't work, it will position the turbo somewhere in the middle of your chassis rail. For a cheap option, I'd be inclined to get an exhaust flange (ordered through one of the blokes selling headers off ebay) and a turbo flange to suit. Then knocking up a manifold yourself out of mild steam steam pipe bends for $100. Fit any form of intercooler you can squeeze in. Fit a rising rate fpr and get it checked on the dyno for detonation. it won't be an ideal tune across the rev range but for 300km a year you'd probably scrape by. If the dyno shows no lean spots and you run decent fuel and your engine is in OK condition and not prone to overheating or leaking oil into the combustion chamber you might stand a fair chance. |
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| Author: | sierrajim [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
mnemonix wrote: I'd be inclined to get an exhaust flange (ordered through one of the blokes selling headers off ebay) and a turbo flange to suit. Then knocking up a manifold yourself out of mild steam steam pipe bends for $100. What size pipe do you suggest? |
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| Author: | JrZook [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
Best off going slightly larger than the port O/D. That way you also dampen reversion pulses. |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
Nos? (I'm serious) Steve |
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
I have G16B exhaust flanges in mild steel. Laser cut 12mm. PM me if you're interested. |
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| Author: | ajsr [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
Gwagensteve wrote: Nos? (I'm serious) Steve x2 im still thinking this as well |
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| Author: | sierrajim [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
Fatzook wrote: I have G16B exhaust flanges in mild steel. Laser cut 12mm. PM me if you're interested. You got PM |
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| Author: | sierrajim [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
ajsr wrote: Gwagensteve wrote: Nos? (I'm serious) Steve x2 im still thinking this as well Doesn't your POS catch on fire without any help? |
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| Author: | WestVic-Zook [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
Anything that is n/a and turbo bolted on the side will never last, built the engine properly and it will last a long time, 90% of n/a engines run hi comp ratios that are not favorable to boost unless u like doing headgaskets etc on a regular basis |
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| Author: | mnemonix [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
Unless you have proof of the above from your own personal experience, jump back in your "Zook Monster Truck" and fuck off to the n00b thread. Provided the tune is adequate, bolt-on conversions to N/A cars are quite achievable. |
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| Author: | WestVic-Zook [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
I believe in a motor that will last not something that will ping off its head on 10psi and die of a quick death u fucktard go onto teamswift forum and say that a na motor will last when boosted they will just laugh at your stupid comment..... |
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| Author: | JrZook [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
West-vic mnemonix has played with boosted suzuki and other engines. He is currently building another one up so he has quite a bit of knowledge in the area. If you go to a teamswift forum they will be the ones laughing their heads off at you as they have also build many turbo'd stock engines that are reliable with the correct tuning. If you actually read the comments above it has been stated quite clearly that the stock engine needs to have some form of tuning so it doesn't run lean and ping its head off under boost. |
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| Author: | ajsr [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
sierrajim wrote: ajsr wrote: Gwagensteve wrote: Nos? (I'm serious) Steve x2 im still thinking this as well Doesn't your POS catch on fire without any help? now your just being nasty
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| Author: | 31zook [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
 I have never seen mark lose his cool like that before 
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| Author: | WestVic-Zook [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
With engine management yes its possible, with a rising rate fuel reg alone you would be pushing it, I believe in a well build low comp engine will last longer and produce more power with tuning and that is money in the bank rather than just wasting it each to their own |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
I think there's some people in this thread who aren't reading what the OP has written. As far as I see it, Jim is looking for a very small increase in torque - basically a "filling out" of the torque band. chasing maximum power will kill driveline in our application. He doesn't want 200HP, not does he want to build a low compression motor that's doughy off boost. This isn't a drag or circuit motor - basically, I reckon similar outputs to a J20A would be plenty, so that's about a 50HP/75Nm lift. That's a VERY small power uplift by turbo terms and shouldn't require a complete motor build to handle so long as it stays cool and doesn't detonate. I think there's a bigger issue with significantly filling out the torque curve, and that's greasing related. Jim is running the same gearing and tyre size as me - G16B/AW-4/6.4/5.12 35" With gearing this low, the car smashes through to 4th low very quickly. I think with a substantial uplift in torque, the car would need taller gearing to work rather than just smashing into the limiter in 4th low all the time. I'd also consider a looser/higher stall converter. I find it hard to clean my tyres out without neutral dropping because with such deep gearing the car starts to turn the tyres just off idle, and the tyres don't turn fast enough until it's shifted up to 2nd or 3rd low, so thinking laterally, I think the ability to launch the car in 2nd or even 3rd low and with a higher stall speed would be much more effective in our terrain. The desire to fill out the torque curve, but only for a tiny amount of the time, is what makes me consider a 50HP NOS hit rather than a turbo conversion. Just some thoughts. |
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| Author: | Rhinoman [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
Are you running na? as its a G16B I would have expected EFI; a MAF based system will fuel OK with small amounts of boost. |
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| Author: | WestVic-Zook [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
Steve how well do the auto box's handle boost?, a stall converter would help if you can buy one for it, nos is another good option but if its only used in a car thats used every now and thenn it would be a easier and possibly a cheaper option to setup |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
Rhinoman, Jim's car runs a hybrid G16B - Baleno bottom end with Jimny injection, so no MAF, MAP only. It's had a Vitara TCC patched in and shifts properly. WestVic-Zook, The AW-4 auto will handle at least as much power as a well built G16 turbo can provide. They are a very strong auto and were used in a number of much larger, heavier, and more powerful cars, such as the XJ Cherokee. I looked into NOS and the cost/performance benefit is almost impossible to ignore, assuming you're generally happy with the cars performance. It's obviously no good if you're not happy with the cruise performance for example, but it's fine if you just need a pit more torque to pull the next gear on a long greasy climb. I'm still struggling with the gearing implications though. To get my car (and therefore Jim's - setup is the same) to really turn the tyres in low range we'd need to swap to maybe 4.6 diff gears and a 4:1 transfer, but then cruise revs would drop too low for the G16 torque band considering the weight of our cars, and we'd loose engine braking and crawl ability. It's a tough call. As it is, we'd be using high range for greasy hills if we had much more torque, which is no bad thing, just an observation. I know nothing about AW-4 converters but I'd assume the G16B uses about the highest stall speed/loosest converter for this auto as it's the least torquey engine used behind it. Could be wrong though - their might be a bolt in option from something else. Steve. |
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| Author: | wombat178 [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
I had a quote not long ago to reco my converter and up the stall speed it was about $400-450. Mines an aw4 also |
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| Author: | zook_ute [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
definitly acheivable, check out my thread. mine is running 13-14 psi and i havent had 1 problem with it. makes 190-205rwhp day in day out. the engine is fully built though, it is running ceramic coated standard pistons. my tuner has said with a water to air cooler setup i could potenially run 15-16 psi with around 240rwhp, 200rwhp is more then enough in my opinion |
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| Author: | Ace [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
I see no reason why a g16 with 7lb on something like a small t25 or subie primary turbo with a small IC and a good tune would not be reliable for a fair mid to low range kick in the pants - just like any other na engine - high boost though its another story Any idea when they started fitting the 4spd auto to the g16? |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
^^^ every LWB was EFI & AW4 |
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| Author: | droverdave [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
Throw standard ecu in the bin. Get aftermarket ecu and a wideband o2 sensor, learn how to tune it yourself. |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
droverdave wrote: Throw standard ecu in the bin. Get aftermarket ecu and a wideband o2 sensor, learn how to tune it yourself. Yep, for sure.  Nobody has ever blown up a motor trying to "tune and aftermarket ECU themselves", nobody has ever had any trouble trying to tune for cold start, nobody has ever had any trouble patching a TCC into an aftermarket ECU to get it to shift the auto, nobody has ever had any problem getting really good part throttle/off boost drivability with an aftermarket ECU, and nobody has any trouble paying for the hours and hours of dyno time to get any of these things right with an aftermarket ECU. Tell you what droverdave, how about I throw my ECU in the bin and drop my car off to your place with a wideband O2 meter, you let me know when I can pick it up with stock drivability, an auto that shifts, wide fuel tolerance, flawless hot and cold starting (as in flawless cold starting at -6˚ and 1500m altitude)..... The factory spend thousands and thousands of hours tuning cars on dynos. They have cold cells to replicate the very coldest start conditions repeatably. They run control fuels to mimic poor octane. They run ridiculous, engine-killing ramp rates to refine every single point on the rpm scale. Of course you can replicate all that with a wideband O2 sensor and a laptop on the passenger seat. Just remember what Jim is after here - a fleshed out torque band, not a full-hektic motor for mad skids. Steve. |
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| Author: | droverdave [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: G16B trail POS turbo talk |
Have you actually done any tuning? on the road? I have, reasonably successfully. let me know how you intend on running a turbo on a standard computer, and ensuring that the timing and fuel is correct. edit: you could go for one of those interceptor ecu piggy back items and retain the standard ecu, but you are still going to need to tune that. |
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