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| Author: | jonno_racing [ Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Oil cooler kit |
With the issues that come factory with the G16B (cracking heads) is there much merit in looking into a sandwich plate style oil cooler kit with a secondary cooler up front? a bunch of Toyota's run them from the factory, i was just looking into it as a secondary messure in keeping things cool and some added security and piece of mind on long trips and big up hill runs. opinions? Phil http://www.ebay.com/itm/Derale-Performa ... 5a&vxp=mtr |
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| Author: | christover1 [ Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
Not that I am very educated in oil tech, but I would say oil needs to be at a predetermined temp to work its best, especially in a light weight, small donk. Cooling oil sounds wise to me, in a modified set up, but not over cooling. |
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| Author: | christover1 [ Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
PS stacked plate type coolers could be better for off road, less prone to damage |
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| Author: | royce [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
might make the oil cooler but I doubt that will do a lot for cooling the engine, there is a lot of coolant and not much alloy in sections of the head lots of engines crack heads, at least new ones are available Just keep the cooling system top notch and fit a head temp alarm, don't think you can do much more, I do like how vits always circulate coolant through the heater core so coolant flows out both ends of the head, do Jimnys do this as well? |
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| Author: | jonno_racing [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
they are essentially taking heat from the motor, there must be a good reason why toyota use them from factory even in there non performance cars? not sure to be honnest on the coolant flow. i would say so tho |
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| Author: | royce [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
which non performance engine use them? generally oil coolers are too keep the oil below the temps that make them turn to shit and stop lubricating, not to keep components cool. see if there is a heater tap, vits dont have one |
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| Author: | jonno_racing [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
royce wrote: which non performance engine use them? generally oil coolers are too keep the oil below the temps that make them turn to shit and stop lubricating, not to keep components cool. see if there is a heater tap, vits dont have one No heater tap  rav4 4afe corolla just 2 that come to mind.. i know i had a gti motor pick up bearings because it was Hot but with a oil cooler maby the oil would be below the required temp to keep it lubricating? |
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| Author: | royce [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
yeah I dont think it can hurt but I dont think it would perform miracles if there was a simple water cooled sandwich plate kind of cooler out there I would probably fit one for giggles |
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| Author: | royce [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
Just had a bit of a google, Z386 (Toyota filter) is the same thread as Suzuki, perhaps try and get a Corolla one and see if it will fit? |
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| Author: | Santos [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
royce wrote: Just had a bit of a google, Z386 (Toyota filter) is the same thread as Suzuki, perhaps try and get a Corolla one and see if it will fit? the universal ones are $14 delivered on ebay... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-Al ... 5650b7ed79 though an oem one probably be better quality and less conspicuous |
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| Author: | royce [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
I am talking this sort of thing  Coolant cools the oil |
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| Author: | Santos [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
ah! i was thinking of the seperate mini radiator types. Wonder how the $14 adaptor would fair with oil pumped through and unused auto cooler section of radiator. |
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| Author: | royce [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
the cooler probably cant handle that kind of pressure |
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| Author: | missmyljdaze [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
dredging up old memories now.......... back in the good old days pre internet- one of those universal type adaptors to fit a LJ80 motor was around $75 for the adaptor body and its centre threaded section only- no hoses or fittings came with them. [one lurking in my shed] The figures quoted from testing done at GMH Lang Lang by a mechanic of mine who worked there for many years, was that well over 40% of the engines heat was transfered from your engine by your oil system. The rest of the heat is looked after by your radiator. As a rule of thumb- any factory original cooling system is only just big enough to cope with its load. Why would a manufacturer cut thier profits by fitting bigger cooling systems, larger capacity oil systems etc. You can get aftermarket oil cooler adaptors with bypass thermostats so the oil only goes through the cooler when the thermostat opens- but its more things to go wrong or leak. A simple adaptor running through a well sized cooler-that preferably does not block the radiator airflow cannot hurt. The toyota system [I think] runs part of the oil flow through a small cooler and dumps back into the sump. It is best if your adaptor/ filter/ cooler and hoses are all kept roughly level- less strain on your oil pump if it doesnt have to push oil uphill. I will dig out my adaptor, VW and tojo coolers and take phonepics and put them up when sandwichmaker is out. I like the look of Royces oil cooler adaptor gizmo! stephen |
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| Author: | want33s [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
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| Author: | Santos [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
missmyljdaze wrote: dredging up old memories now.......... back in the good old days pre internet- one of those universal type adaptors to fit a LJ80 motor was around $75 for the adaptor body and its centre threaded section only- no hoses or fittings came with them. [one lurking in my shed] Factoring in depriaciation of 20 years i'll give you $15 for it  this thread does interest me, been mulling over various cooling configurations for a 1.4L |
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| Author: | ajsr [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
considering oil jets have been used to cool pistons and engine internals for over 50 years id say lowering the oil temp could make a marked difference to engine temps provided you could cool theoil enough |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
you can get thermostats for the remote oil coolers, quite common in the land of stickers & rice.  thermo block is down the bottom.  they even do jimny ones   personally i'd steer clear of the ebay spec coolers & AN fittings etc. 
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
Test Vehicle: TOYOTA AE86 Specifications: LEGAMAX Premium / Premium Suction Test Course: Fuji International Speedway Short Course The oil temperature of a vehicle without the oil cooler reached 130°C in the fifth minute; the vehicle had to be stopped to cool the oil temperature down. The oil temperature of the vehicle with the HKS Cooler maintained 115°C through the entire 30 minutes of the test. |
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| Author: | missmyljdaze [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
Santos wrote: Factoring in depriaciation of 20 years i'll give you $15 for it this thread does interest me, been mulling over various cooling configurations for a 1.4LCloser to 30 years of depreciation! At $14 delivered- its cheaper to buy the shiney new ebay adaptor- than to send my relic across the nullabour,  Go the ebay adaptor, visit a wreckers for a toyota oil cooler, buy quality fittings for the adaptor that match the pipe size for the toyota cooler. Buy the hose and hose fittings from pirtec or similar mob. Mount the cooler level with the oil filter adaptor if possible [it has 2 x captive nuts to make it easy] with some mesh to protect it. Depending on length of hoses, the adaptor, hoses and cooler might add about 400 mls to your oil capacity. Pretty easy job that can be done during your next oil change. stephen. |
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| Author: | jonno_racing [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
wow good to see some real tech in here... You only have to give a loose ish motor a hard time for 10min in a mud hole or something and it will start to rattle even though temp gauge is saying operating temp... i will order up a kit of some kind and get it sorted for the jimny before i put the g16b in.. might help her last much longer? well we can hope so! wonder if it would need a fan? i did read the other day some one had used a oil cooler on a LJ and it helped it from getting hot. this came to mind with a mates car that he has issues keeping cool after a gti converison. Phil |
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| Author: | missmyljdaze [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
jonno_racing wrote: i did read the other day some one had used a oil cooler on a LJ and it helped it from getting hot. Phil that was me, it was a dodgy farm hack LJ50 rescued from a mobile sims crusher, with a recycled LJ80 motor bolted in. Always running hot from crawling around boundaries, towing, dragging treestumps, carting fertiliser etc LJ50 radiator was dodgy as- leaking under pressure- more patches than rad., so it ended up running unpressurised. Used the spare adaptor and external filter bracket from another project, silver soldered barb tail fittings onto a VW oil cooler and bolted it all on. Didnt look pretty [didnt need to] Never ran hot or overheated again. stephen |
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| Author: | jono165 [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
royce wrote: bit of random tech but I own a mazda 323 with the BP (same as mx5, protege etc) engine which has this from factory. Depending on what you read it is either referred to as the oil cooler or warmer. The coolant circulates through this even with the thermostat closed so it serves the purpose of warming the oil up faster get it up to temp and then regulating it once at temp. This engine seems to have quite alot too keep the oil cool, aluminium sump with cooling fins, sandwhich style oil cooler and piston oil squirters. I think this is mainly because the engine was also developed for turbo application. This engine also has hydraulic lifters, mx5 forums suggest that the oiler cooler helps keep the oil at the ideal temp/viscosity to prevent ticking from the HLA. As far as G16 motors go its probably not worthwhile, when my old vit cracked its head its was due to a radiator that the radiator shop told me because it was partially blocked. I think as long as you maintain the cooling system you'll never have an issue - regular coolant changes should help keep the radiator clean (removing all traces of old coolant or sticking to the same brand), new thermostat if its getting on a bit or unknown and either re-oil or replace the fan clutch if you're not sure on it. |
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| Author: | Santos [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
missmyljdaze wrote: Santos wrote: Factoring in depriaciation of 20 years i'll give you $15 for it this thread does interest me, been mulling over various cooling configurations for a 1.4LCloser to 30 years of depreciation! At $14 delivered- its cheaper to buy the shiney new ebay adaptor- than to send my relic across the nullabour, Go the ebay adaptor, visit a wreckers for a toyota oil cooler, buy quality fittings for the adaptor that match the pipe size for the toyota cooler. Buy the hose and hose fittings from pirtec or similar mob. Mount the cooler level with the oil filter adaptor if possible [it has 2 x captive nuts to make it easy] with some mesh to protect it. Depending on length of hoses, the adaptor, hoses and cooler might add about 400 mls to your oil capacity. Pretty easy job that can be done during your next oil change. stephen. A few years back i bought a 70's/80's radiator for some oil-cooled suzuki bike.. that's as far as i got with the project, might have to dig it out
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| Author: | royce [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
Ill throw some other random oil cooler thoughts in here Cooper S' had an oil cooler from factory (the real ones not the new BMW rubbish) all minis have a finned alloy sump as well for oil cooling as the gearbox also uses the engine oil and when pushed real hard (IE racing) the oil would get hot These days less and less of the guru's (which in this case are smart old guys that have been playing with minis for 30+ years) are bothering with oil coolers as its something else to go wrong and modern oils don't need the cooling. You fit oil coolers to cool the oil and keep it in its optimum zone, never to cool an engine, look at the oil galleries in a block and look at the water jackets, you are going to make a shitload of difference spending a few hundred on the cooling system compared to an oil cooler Ill touch on cost here too, there is more to it than a $14 bit of alloy! you'll need a cooler designed for engine oil, it should be new so you aren't getting something full of rubbish and killing your bearings, so thats $150-$200 You'll need hoses, remember 100% of the engines oil passes through here so a bit of fuel hose and some clamps wont cut it here, of the shelf hoses for a mini are $100 so ill guess the much longer custom ones you need might be $150. So we still have to fit it and mount it and we've spent $3-350 on it, not to mention we haven't yet worked out if the oil is actually getting hot enough to warrant cooling, if the coolant is 92 degrees and the oil 80, then obviously not a lot of heat is transferring to it, not to mention there being numerous other reasons why a hot engine will be noisy, namely expansion! A G16b head has a piddly little feed going to it, I am sure a smart person could work out how many kw of heat that much cold oil could pull out and I bet its still bugger all. I reckon you would be better off spending the money on new hoses, new vit radiator and fan, head temp gauge and if you want to really fiddle feed the heater core outlet into an aux cooler before it goes back into the pump so it adds a bit of cooler coolant in there |
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| Author: | Ausuki [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
how would all this extra pluming effect the oil pressure? |
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| Author: | royce [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
Ausuki wrote: how would all this extra pluming effect the oil pressure? If setup to not drain when the engine is off and the lines are big enough to not restrict flow it should make no difference |
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| Author: | SuziBlu [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
royce wrote: Ill throw some other random oil cooler thoughts in here I reckon you would be better off spending the money on new hoses, new vit radiator and fan, head temp gauge and if you want to really fiddle feed the heater core outlet into an aux cooler before it goes back into the pump so it adds a bit of cooler coolant in there Good quality oil, costs, but is great insurance. |
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| Author: | royce [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
SuziBlu wrote: royce wrote: Ill throw some other random oil cooler thoughts in here I reckon you would be better off spending the money on new hoses, new vit radiator and fan, head temp gauge and if you want to really fiddle feed the heater core outlet into an aux cooler before it goes back into the pump so it adds a bit of cooler coolant in there Good quality oil, costs, but is great insurance. Indeed, 340000km on my vit and still going strong, though with a new head cause I allowed the coolant level to drop |
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| Author: | SuziBlu [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oil cooler kit |
People here and at home laugh at me because I use Mobil 1, but as I see it, when im going out alone, and the toy is bumping redline for long times, it gives peace of mind, and longevity, meaning, I can get home, with nary a thought. I did stuff up with me Vitara, used 0-W5 in it same as I was using in suzyblu, started using lots of oil, shes a road car more or less, so back to good quality mineral, but in the LWB its same, 0-W5, not a drop used, and she lives a really hard life. 5,000ks oil n filter. Ever used Teflon ? |
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