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| Twin steer can it be engineered ??? https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40361 |
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| Author: | Bennyzarb [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
Can twin steer be engineered and what would I have to do to get it engineered ? |
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
What is twin steer? Do you mean rear steer? If yes, then No. |
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| Author: | Bennyzarb [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
I think I will have to look into this further |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
THIS has rear steer, and is allowed on the road under a limited registration. SO if your vehicle looks the same, then you're in with a chance!  
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| Author: | got_bar_work [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
U could try and use a electric actuator instead of a hydro ram That way u could say that there is a physical connection not just hydro Rear steer is legal if done right as some cars come with it from factory It would need some way of self centering and a lockout for over a certin speed There is a defender with rear steer that just has bolts that go through some plates to lock it up It was in 4wd mothly |
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| Author: | 31zook [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
Its possible to engineer it. I just think it would be a pain in the ass. |
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| Author: | Chester [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
My Uncle had a rear steer third generation Honda Prelude, so as got_bar_work said, it could be done, if done correctly. |
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
The hondas and celicas etc also only have like 3deg of turn at best. A steer diff in the rear could have up to 70deg. It has been done. But I don't think it should be done. Also, in your car bennyzarb I reckon you'd flip it 1000x quicker
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| Author: | Jezza86 [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
telstar/626 1993 model, with RS turncircle 9.8m without 12.3. no idea how it worked, mine didnt have it. fellt like you were doign a uturn in a bus |
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| Author: | rpmwrx [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
This is engineered for queer steer... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/200912344440 ... 1423.l2649 |
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
Jezza86 wrote: telstar/626 1993 model, with RS turncircle 9.8m without 12.3. no idea how it worked, mine didnt have it. fellt like you were doign a uturn in a bus Rack and pinion in the rear. |
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| Author: | just_cruizin [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
But how is operated, electric or hydraulic? The passenger car versions were speed dependent and changed direct depending on speed |
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
How is it operated in which car? |
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
just_cruizin wrote: But how is operated, electric or hydraulic? The passenger car versions were speed dependent and changed direct depending on speed My 300ZX had rear steer (HICAS). Max steer angle was 7 degrees. At 100kph it was locked out. This is NOT the same as having a solid steer axle that can achieve 50 degrees lock. |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
And that's the key - there's no user input. There will have to be lockouts etc to prevent accidental application of rear steer. I'm sure it's possible, but it's going to be a LOT of work for something that's of more theoretical advantage than an actual advantage. Have a look at the results of TT to see that there were some very high placings from cars with no rear steer. I vote poor return for investment to make road legal. Steve. |
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| Author: | Red89 [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
Gwagensteve wrote: And that's the key - there's no user input. There will have to be lockouts etc to prevent accidental application of rear steer. Steve. Cos from seeing it happen it can get pretty ugly when you knock the lever at speed The other thing to consider is you will need a fair bit of panel work done to the rear to accomodate the tucked wheel being turned which is why most simply remove the panels altogether.
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
Red89 wrote: Gwagensteve wrote: And that's the key - there's no user input. There will have to be lockouts etc to prevent accidental application of rear steer. Steve. Cos from seeing it happen it can get pretty ugly when you knock the lever at speed The other thing to consider is you will need a fair bit of panel work done to the rear to accomodate the tucked wheel being turned which is why most simply remove the panels altogether.Yeah, a line blew on the buggy at speed once, snapped full lock to one side. Would be interesting on the road! With a sierra chassis, there is no room for it to be useful let alone the panels. |
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| Author: | Red89 [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
SierraDan wrote: Red89 wrote: Gwagensteve wrote: And that's the key - there's no user input. There will have to be lockouts etc to prevent accidental application of rear steer. Steve. Cos from seeing it happen it can get pretty ugly when you knock the lever at speed The other thing to consider is you will need a fair bit of panel work done to the rear to accomodate the tucked wheel being turned which is why most simply remove the panels altogether.Yeah, a line blew on the buggy at speed once, snapped full lock to one side. Would be interesting on the road! With a sierra chassis, there is no room for it to be useful let alone the panels. A mate barrel rolled at around 70kph when he hit a pot hole on gravel and bumped the indicator stalk that controls the rear steer, both him and his passenger were only wearing the lap part of their harnesses, his passenger hit his shoulder on the ground as it went over and broke his collar bone. |
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| Author: | alien [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
broken collar bone from a 70km/hr rollover with only a lap belt... sounds like the car was pretty well engineered to only do that amount of damage to the occupants! |
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
I would imagine if it has rear steer it has a cage alien... |
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| Author: | got_bar_work [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
SierraDan wrote: Red89 wrote: Gwagensteve wrote: And that's the key - there's no user input. There will have to be lockouts etc to prevent accidental application of rear steer. Steve. Cos from seeing it happen it can get pretty ugly when you knock the lever at speed The other thing to consider is you will need a fair bit of panel work done to the rear to accomodate the tucked wheel being turned which is why most simply remove the panels altogether.Yeah, a line blew on the buggy at speed once, snapped full lock to one side. Would be interesting on the road! Thats y i said use a actuator as it cant move unless power is put to the motor And being electrical it would be easy to get a control box made that had a speed input and would just lock it center over like 20kmh Would need some sort of limit switches but wouldnt be that hard |
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
I reckon just leave the rear steer to the car on the trailer 
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| Author: | Reubs [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
Fatzook wrote: just_cruizin wrote: But how is operated, electric or hydraulic? The passenger car versions were speed dependent and changed direct depending on speed My 300ZX had rear steer (HICAS). Max steer angle was 7 degrees. At 100kph it was locked out. This is NOT the same as having a solid steer axle that can achieve 50 degrees lock. I'm pretty sure the HICAS systems on the 300ZX, skylines etc. had a maximum movement of about 1 (ONE) degree only. It's purpose is for stability control during high speed cornering. |
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
Reubs wrote: Fatzook wrote: just_cruizin wrote: But how is operated, electric or hydraulic? The passenger car versions were speed dependent and changed direct depending on speed My 300ZX had rear steer (HICAS). Max steer angle was 7 degrees. At 100kph it was locked out. This is NOT the same as having a solid steer axle that can achieve 50 degrees lock. I'm pretty sure the HICAS systems on the 300ZX, skylines etc. had a maximum movement of about 1 (ONE) degree only. It's purpose is for stability control during high speed cornering. Missing a digit there Reubs. Taken from Wiki.... "HICAS and Super HICAS rear wheel steering is limited to about 10 degrees in either direction" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HICAS |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
the 4ws system on the mazda's switched from rear steer to crab steer at around 35kph from memory, was only around 5 degrees but was still pretty cool to park & crab steer high speed overtakes were cool. |
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| Author: | Reubs [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
Fatzook wrote: Missing a digit there Reubs. Taken from Wiki.... "HICAS and Super HICAS rear wheel steering is limited to about 10 degrees in either direction" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HICAS Nope. 1 degree only. HICAS is stability control and in no way is rear-steer. I don't want a p***ing competition so here's some 'tech'. Quote: The HICAS brain (the ECU found in the boot near the battery (R33 models) gets it information from sensors that monitor the steering angle, the speed the steering wheel is being turned and the cars speed. From this information the brain works out how much steering input to apply to the rear wheels. This then operates a solenoid valve that controls the flow of oil to the rear steering actuator. This is linked to the wheels a bit like a normal steering rack via a pair of track rods. The only difference is the amount of movement allowed. A maximum of 1 degree of lock can be applied at low speed and only 0.3 degrees at higher speeds. Find below a video of a 300zx in diagnostic mode showing you Maximum movement while stationary http://www.gtrpwr.com/showthread.php?t=1295 The vid showing maximum movement and some 'good tech' is here. http://z32.wikispaces.com/HICAS |
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
Well mine must have been played with in the motherland, because it achieved far greater than 1 degree! HICAS eliminator kit was the best thing I ever fitted to that car! |
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| Author: | monley [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
Seen a srecthed Hummer the other day with around 15deg of rear steer at a guess from seeing it at full lock ....must be handy for the maccas drive through after a wedding
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| Author: | Fatzook [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Twin steer can it be engineered ??? |
monley wrote: Seen a srecthed Hummer the other day with around 15deg of rear steer at a guess from seeing it at full lock ....must be handy for the maccas drive through after a wedding Actually I've seen that too! I guess when you are trying to engineer a vehicle that has a wheelbase 4 times the factory measurement, rear steer would be the least of your issues! |
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