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H20A to H27A conversion
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Author:  murpha86 [ Wed May 15, 2013 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  H20A to H27A conversion
Hello all. I have just bought a 96 LWB V6 Vitara. I thought i was getting a bargin and really what i got was a bit of a head ache. Dead H20 but everything else is good. But never the less here i am. I have tried to find as much as i can about conversions for H20A to H25 or even H27. I found that the H25 is pretty much a straight drop with minor changes (always a worry as depends on the person opinion on whats "minor") Now i found a H25A at the suzuki shop in Beckenham, WA for a reasonable price and 3 months warranty he just needed to pull it out. How ever he called me today and said he has a H27A ready to go and i could have for the same price. I know a H27A is just a stroked H25 and i know that there are a few ppl who have done H25 conversions no problem. What i want to know is will the H20 ecu handle the H27 no probs if i keep the H27 injectors and use the H20 Throttle body and IAC as people have done with the 20 to 25 conversion??

Thanks in advance.
Author:  bigrig91 [ Wed May 15, 2013 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
I would drop the H27 straight in. Use the h27 manifold and everything. Hook it up and hope it can run it. I have been told it can deal with it but you never know till you try.

However I have done the h20-h25 and it was straightforward and you know 100% that it will run. I am very happy with it.
Author:  ninjamoses [ Wed May 15, 2013 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
Just a note - make sure the H27A is one of the early year ones out of an XL7. The later ones from the 05+ JB GVs don't run the camshaft sensor so would require significant electrical work.
Author:  murpha86 [ Wed May 15, 2013 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
Thanks for the reply. I have read somewhere that you are the man to talk to regarding this. Did you use the H20 throttle body? what about the IAC? Its just the only info i have found on this states something about having to use the h20 ones for some reason?? I will take photos and put up as much info as i can while im doing this so its here for other ppl to find.
Author:  murpha86 [ Wed May 15, 2013 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
Thanks ninja. Just double checked that and yes is the XL7 one. (the stroked H25A version) I picking it up tomorrow and putting it in on friday (thats the plan)

Let you know how it goes
Author:  larry [ Wed May 15, 2013 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
this is interesting
Author:  Fatzook [ Wed May 15, 2013 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
bigrig91 wrote:
I would drop the H27 straight in. Use the h27 manifold and everything. Hook it up and hope it can run it. I have been told it can deal with it but you never know till you try.




Thats terrible advise!! What happens when he melts his motor? :roll:

Not saying thats what will happen, but after shelling out good cash for a not so common engine, why would you just slap it in and hope the 2L ECU will run it?

Perhaps someone who has actually done this swap, and had it tested with a wideband O2 sensor can tell us how well it works, if it fuels properly etc...
Author:  murpha86 [ Wed May 15, 2013 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
I think it will be ok. worst case ill need 2.7 ecu? anyone know it it will plug into the h20 loom?
Author:  Fatzook [ Wed May 15, 2013 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
murpha86 wrote:
I think it will be ok. worst case ill need 2.7 ecu? anyone know it it will plug into the h20 loom?



If it were me doing the job, I'd definately be using the 2.7ECU and loom.
Author:  murpha86 [ Wed May 15, 2013 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
Fatzook wrote:
murpha86 wrote:
I think it will be ok. worst case ill need 2.7 ecu? anyone know it it will plug into the h20 loom?



If it were me doing the job, I'd definately be using the 2.7ECU and loom.


I do see where your comming from. but if im using the 2.7 injectors the maps in the 2.0 should be the right
curve for it to work? ill ask for the loom n harness from the place anyway it they don't want too much for it. lol
Author:  Fatzook [ Wed May 15, 2013 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
murpha86 wrote:
Fatzook wrote:
murpha86 wrote:
I think it will be ok. worst case ill need 2.7 ecu? anyone know it it will plug into the h20 loom?



If it were me doing the job, I'd definately be using the 2.7ECU and loom.


I do see where your comming from. but if im using the 2.7 injectors the maps in the 2.0 should be the right
curve for it to work?



I'm not stating that it can't or won't work. But simply making the assumption that the 2.0 ECU will operate the 2.7 within its required perameters after having changed only the injectors is crazy. If it were that simple, then suzuki would just make one ECU for all their cars and save a shit load of money on R&D and engineering the firmware.
Author:  Built4thrashing [ Wed May 15, 2013 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
Fatzook wrote:


I'm not stating that it can't or won't work. But simply making the assumption that the 2.0 ECU will operate the 2.7 within its required perameters after having changed only the injectors is crazy. If it were that simple, then suzuki would just make one ECU for all their cars and save a shit load of money on R&D and engineering the firmware.



Well they did this when it came to their diffs. Alot of diff internal parts are interchangeable from Sierra to Vit to X90 and GV.

And unless someone has a shot then none of us will know if it works or not.
Author:  Fatzook [ Wed May 15, 2013 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
Built4thrashing wrote:
Fatzook wrote:


I'm not stating that it can't or won't work. But simply making the assumption that the 2.0 ECU will operate the 2.7 within its required perameters after having changed only the injectors is crazy. If it were that simple, then suzuki would just make one ECU for all their cars and save a shit load of money on R&D and engineering the firmware.



Well they did this when it came to their diffs. Alot of diff internal parts are interchangeable from Sierra to Vit to X90 and GV.

And unless someone has a shot then none of us will know if it works or not.



Easy to say when its not your money paying for it :roll:

If this were a discussion on a 2.5 to 2.7 swap, I'd be less pessimistic, but assuming that the 2.0L ECU will run an engine thqat is 35% larger is a different matter.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed May 15, 2013 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
Fatzook wrote:
If it were me doing the job, I'd definitely be using the 2.7ECU and loom.


THIS

It's madness to assume that a H20 and H27 will share the same fuel/ignition maps, or that they won't be different enough to cause an issue.

It's amazing how often this sort of thing gets bandied around though by people who know very little about EFI.

Wideband O2 sensor, and/or some quality dyno time as a minimum. Probably less costly to just use the H27 loom and computer and then you don't have to guess or spend money trying to prove it's not going to melt.

Steve.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Wed May 15, 2013 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
pretty sure the H25a & H27a IAC will fowl with the bonnet on a SV, polar_bears had been butchered from memory.
Author:  bigrig91 [ Wed May 15, 2013 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
All H25 bits fit under my bonnet just fine. H27 are the same just with that butterfly thing.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Wed May 15, 2013 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
i thought you swapped the complete H20a intake onto the H25a bottom end? :?

EDIT: just saw on pg3 of your build that you ended up with the H25 intake on it.
Author:  bigrig91 [ Wed May 15, 2013 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
atari4x4 wrote:

EDIT: just saw on pg3 of your build that you ended up with the H25 intake on it.


Yeah. All the same except the IAC valve. Im all for the OP giving it a go but sadly it is his money being spent so i hope he does research it a bit more and take all the precautions neccessary to not kill his motor. A commo v6 for 50 bucks would be a cheaper swap and probably as legal as this one.
Author:  murpha86 [ Wed May 15, 2013 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
Ok guys im just saying what other ppl have said and done. I always thought I would need the ecu and loom. I will try it then we will all know
Author:  ninjamoses [ Wed May 15, 2013 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
I can sell you a H27A injection setup, the main engine loom plus a bonus intake manifold for a third of the price of whatever suzi shop quotes you :)
PM me if you want it.

Random fact I came across when I was doing my research for the motor swap... supposedly the H25A injectors are bigger than the H27A ones. No idea why or how the H20A ones compare.
Author:  murpha86 [ Thu May 16, 2013 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
ok cool. well im buying a full engine so I might grab the ecu n loom from you? where are you located? just send me a email we can sort it out off the forum.
Author:  Brett [ Thu May 16, 2013 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
What's it costing?
Author:  murpha86 [ Thu May 16, 2013 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
picked up engine today. got block n head n intake mani n injectors n clutch for $2500 with 3 month warranty. ive started to swap over all the h20 accessories n they are so far straight swap. im woking nights so cant keep going till tomorrow. will keep you all posted.

Does any one have a wideband they might want to part with? also if any one knows what AF ratio I should be after that would be great too.
Author:  Fatzook [ Thu May 16, 2013 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
murpha86 wrote:
also if any one knows what AF ratio I should be after that would be great too.



Stoich.
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Thu May 16, 2013 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
Fatzook wrote:
murpha86 wrote:
also if any one knows what AF ratio I should be after that would be great too.



Stoich.


So 14.7 for unleaded
Author:  murpha86 [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
Whats Stoich? and yer thought bout that. seams a little lean tho? but im more used to turbo cars.
Author:  Brett [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversions
14.7 is the perfect burn but its is always changing depending on load. 11-12 under full load is good for power
Author:  Fatzook [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
murpha86 wrote:
Whats Stoich?


Not trying to be a cunce, but this is something you should know if you are playing with engine swaps and EFI. Even more so if you've worked on turbo cars. Wiki has a good rundown on stoichiometric mixture. :wink:
Author:  Fatzook [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversions
Brett wrote:
11-12 under full load is good for power


Not a mixture I'd be running on a suzuki motor. They are renound for pre-det as it is!
Author:  murpha86 [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: H20A to H27A conversion
Thanks Brett. Rough idea any ways. I hear your skepticism fatzook but im going to try this and if it works great if not ill get the loom n ecu n go from there. from what other ppl hav done with 20 to 25 swaps I dont really see why the 27 wont work or at least worth a try.
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