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cv popping out
https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41430		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  tom240 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  cv popping out
had 2 CVs "break" in the last 2 weeks...
the shaft with the cage is popping out of the inner housing (probably used the wrong words..) the retaining clip is giving way and getting mangled. the first time this happened i assumed (wrongly) that it was broken and i sourced a complete second hand driveshaft and put it in, went out for a wheel today in some rocky terrain and it broke, had a look when i got home and found out whats happening.

i have 3 inch calmini lift kit including diff drop brackets and 30 inch tyres
    why does this keep happening?
    can i get a new retaining clip from somewhere?
    anyone have deceased CV with a good retaining clip?


Image
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
been a while since i had one apart but the retaining clip thing looks too short (might just be the pic) :?
Author:  Scrawny [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
So it's the clip I can see that's breaking? The one that stops the balls from rolling out of their tracks? How long have you had the 3" lift in? Sounds like the shaft is travelling too far out
Author:  tom240 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
yeah the clip in question is the one holding the balls in
its smaller than is should be because i tried to straighten it and it snapped
3 inch lift has been on the car before i bought it, (i've had it for about a month)
how do i stop it coming too far out? longer cv?
Author:  christover1 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
Same side that broke bit off of diff housing?
I think it is possibly pulling out too far,
maybe from suspension dropping too far,
or something similar.
Or just bad luck from old parts.
Author:  christover1 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
Wrongly fitted diff drop brackets could be causing not enough free length in cup?
Author:  christover1 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
Just taking wild guesses, hard to say without looking
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
Image

chris, see that button... use it!!!

:thefinger:


looks like the RHS diff drop is in the right spot in this pic from his other thread.
Image
Author:  christover1 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
That side is usually ultra tight, very surprised it could pull out.
Usually come astray from the diff.

Maybe has more droop added on top of the calmini,
or runs near full droop too often.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
CJ had no problem making that side fall out with stock calmini, from memory. There's been a heap of other people who have had the driver's side axle fall out/apart.

As an aside, I'd be making sure all three bolts are in that drop bracket, not just two. Last trip I was on with a vitara the front diff almost fell out because those bolts broke.
Author:  christover1 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
He only has 2 holes available, other snapped off earlier 8O

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Author:  tom240 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
thanks for all the replies guys.
is there any way to stop it going full droop? (by droop do you mean the wheel moving down away from the body?)
yeah other hole snapped off, hoping the casing will hold out till i can get a steel one

also, i went to make a reply before, i clicked submit but when i came back now i cant see my reply? happened the other day as well...
Author:  christover1 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
Yes droop is down away from body.
That is when Vitaras cv's are at their weakest, even more so when full turning, under power.
(Often during rocky driving)
Solutions really depend on what previous owner has done to it.
It may need shorter struts, or a spacer removed, or strut top flipped right way up.

Try to cycle it thru its full range of travel, on stands, or ramps etc, and see how much movement things have.

On mine, I found it helpful to adjust the steering stops, so I don't get tempted to turn hard when drooped
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
Time to look for a new axlehousing - that's going to break for sure. They definitely need all three bolts.

Without knowing exactly what parts are in your car, I can't comment further about the droop related problems, but Chris's comments are on the money IMHO - there might be something in the front end allowing excessive droop.

Steve.
Author:  DAB [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
WOOOW!!!! Tom, I dont have any more mate! im guessing them extra long wishbones and 3" lift is to much
for standard shafts... dont know if it would help or if its even possible to go
back to standard wishbones? just an idea.... let me know how it goes.

regards DAB
Author:  tom240 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
thanks heaps guys, thats really helpful. will get it up on jack stands and start to play around with stuff
Author:  tom240 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
DAB wrote:
WOOOW!!!! Tom, I dont have any more mate! im guessing them extra long wishbones and 3" lift is to much
for standard shafts... dont know if it would help or if its even possible to go
back to standard wishbones? just an idea.... let me know how it goes.

regards DAB


hahaha yeah i was going to text you. not real keen on going backwards (putting standard components back in) ill play around with things like the strut spacer and stuff to try and get it to work first.

also dan we forgot to get the rail for the rear seats so it looks like i may be coming down for the weekend at some point haha
Author:  christover1 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
This is a question, I don't know.
But the "long wish bone"comment makes me wonder
is a Calmini kit supposed to use the later longer axles?
Assuming the wider track Vitaras do use longer axles that is.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
What/who/when?

Calmini wishbones aren't "extra long" - they are only slightly different to stock, intended to correct camber with the 3" lift.

If you have other modifications/part that are increasing track width, then they will be the culprit.

Steve.
Author:  christover1 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
Thinkin I just read that all wrong.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
DAB wrote:
WOOOW!!!! Tom, I dont have any more mate! im guessing them extra long wishbones and 3" lift is to much
for standard shafts... dont know if it would help or if its even possible to go
back to standard wishbones? just an idea.... let me know how it goes.

regards DAB


:lol:


having run the calmini kit for god knows how long i've never had a CV pull apart like that, even running the calmini strut spacers & both OME & dobinson extended struts, going by the pics it looks like you have a yellow strut of some sort, the stub used pull away from the diff after the airlocker & GV steel diff went in due to the circlip not locating properly but that was a completely different problem.

i'd have a guess that the 2nd hand CV's are 1/2 the problem, could be 24 years old if it was out of an early carby vitara.

i'll suggest 3 things, degrease that mess before working on it & chase down a NEW CV

the old saying... don't be a jew & buy new, or don't be a wanker & buy a brand spanker springs to mind. :lol:
Author:  tom240 [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
was under the car today, was taking off the strut spacers to try and get Mr CV to play nice and i noticed hole 2 of 3 has broken off the diff casing and hole 3 looks like he's just about holding on.. also looks like the diff drop drop bracket is bent.
so, plan of action is straighten the diff drop bracket, get a new diff casing and get a new cv and get back in the bush! (or beach rather, supposed to be going up to stockton beach next weekend)
also, i've heard of using 2 passenger side driveshafts, hoe exactly does that work?

Image

Image
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
that will do it, pretty sure that's rooted. :lol:
Author:  christover1 [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
There's info on the cv conversion in the " bullet proof Vitara front diff " topic.
Basically make a stub axle out of the cup from drivers side cut down then welded to a flange from passenger side.
So you can use a bolt on cv/axle. Much easier for track side changes, and carrying of spares.

http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6953
Author:  christover1 [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
Diff could have been moving away from the cv :shocked:
Author:  DarkHorse [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
Yep, that's frucked. Never seen that before...

Replacement CVs can be troublesome - as Atari said a used one could be 20+ years old, but a new aftermarket is often not the same quality/strength as a 'factory' original. Most of us go through a few CVs as we increase suspension travel and learn to drive the car. Christover mentioned that the CVs are at their most vulnerable with the suspension at full droop, steering at full lock, and foot flat to the floor. Any combination of those factors and you're asking for trouble. Unfortunately CV conservation often comes primarily down to mechanical sympathy in your driving. You're asking a fairly complex componant to operate well outside it's design brief.

To try to narrow something down for you - if you're running a longer strut than standard with the Calmini strut spacer as well you'll have too much travel, which will pull your CV apart.
Author:  tom240 [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
DarkHorse wrote:

To try to narrow something down for you - if you're running a longer strut than standard with the Calmini strut spacer as well you'll have too much travel, which will pull your CV apart.


yeah it has dobinsons struts and the calmini strut spacer, is that too much to ask of it? would it be a good idea to remove the strut spacer? kind of feels like im going backwards, removing mods... but if it means my cvs dont break then more 4wding will be had

EDIT: however, atari 4x4 said he has run dobinsons and spacers at the same time with no issues. ill try getting a new diff housing and straightening the drop bracket and if im still breaking shit, goodbye strut spacers
Author:  christover1 [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
I run dobinsons struts, with strut top flip.
I Tried strut 40mm spacers instead of flip, but at full droop, my cv's would bind up.
So I removed the strut spacers, and flipped the strut tops again.
Strut top flip adds around 20mm.
Dobinsons are +40mm
Having no binding now.

I imagine at full droop and full steer, you may not be able to rotate front axle.
Author:  tom240 [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
christover1 wrote:
I run dobinsons struts, with strut top flip.
I Tried strut 40mm spacers instead of flip, but at full droop, my cv's would bind up.
So I removed the strut spacers, and flipped the strut tops again.
Strut top flip adds around 20mm.
Dobinsons are +40mm
Having no binding now.

I imagine at full droop and full steer, you may not be able to rotate front axle.



thanks for the info, that sounds like a good idea, will most likely do the flip and remove the spacers
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cv popping out
I get a bit puzzled about the obsession with Vitara front wheel travel. It's close to irrelevant - vitara's don't pick up front wheels anyway. Unless you are chasing high off road speed, it's a CV busting waste of time. The only reason it's possible to chase all this droop is because Suzuki penny-pinched and didn't fit rebound rubbers like every other IFS design, and relied on the strut to limit droop and keep the CV's alive.

Limit travel, go all steel, and 26 spline if you can. That's what ail hld CV's together. Another couple of inches of front droop aren't ever going to make a difference to getting up a track or not.

Steve.
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