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Coils vs Leafs
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Author:  Bozy97 [ Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Coils vs Leafs
Hey guys.
Wondering your opinions about which is better.
A leaf sprung Sierra or a Coil sprung Sierra?
Thanks
Author:  sideways [ Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
A coil sprung sierra is better if you never plan to modify it and just go to the beach, commute ect.

A leaf sprung Sierra is better for everything else.

The way I see it, a Coily is the useless middle ground between a leafy and Jimny. IMO now that the Jimnys aftermarket support has really grown the only advantage a coily has is the look and that's subjective. I personally think the 2013 Jimny looks nicer than a coily. I never liked the coily front end.

A coily has no aftermarket support outside of lift kits, quite possibly the worst suspension setup to feature on a mass produced live axle 4WD, engines famous for dying, hardly any of the comforts of a jimny yet hardly any of the modifyability of a leaf sprung Sierra and fragile, rare and expensive mechanicals.
Author:  Bozy97 [ Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Ehh fuck.
I got a coily.
And there is know way to convert
Author:  smiley_666 [ Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
there is; sell it and buy a leaf sprung one
Author:  sideways [ Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Sell it and buy a leaf sprung one, it's the only way. Coilys share about as much in common with a leaf sprung Sierra as a Jimny does.

Edit, beaten.
Author:  Reubs [ Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Bozy97 wrote:
Ehh fuck.
I got a coily.
And there is know way to convert

There is no problem unless you intend to twin-lock it or run big tyres.

I reckon most Sierra owners don't wheel hard enough to need a leafy anyway and you see a lot more stock Sierras around than modded ones and a stock coily will go just as far as a stock leafy.

Anyhow most Sierras get sold after only a few good trips out so just sell it if you outgrow it. I was the 8th owner of one of mine and the average kms between the last 6 owners was only about 5000km.
Author:  Bozy97 [ Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
I plan on having 30's or maybe 235's
No lockers. I'm not spending too much on it as I want to upgrade to a defender
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
You'll be fine then.

Steve.
Author:  PurpleZOOK [ Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
i've got the same year and model as you, we can change transfers to a wt and reduce the gearing and rear lock it, set up the front in chromo and shouldn't have a worry, although if you want to go all out get a leafy.
Author:  kenn [ Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Bozy97 wrote:
I plan on having 30's or maybe 235's
No lockers. I'm not spending too much on it as I want to upgrade to a defender



This is not an upgrade !
Author:  Marko_SJ [ Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
kenn wrote:
Bozy97 wrote:
I plan on having 30's or maybe 235's
No lockers. I'm not spending too much on it as I want to upgrade to a defender



This is not an upgrade !


Yes it is!

Just like when my mate upgraded to a Hilux, it had the advantages of being slower, less capable and less reliable!

All whilst costing way more money to repair 8)
Author:  Trebor [ Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
If you want coils and want to mod get a jimny at lest you can get parts, I am think I should have bought a jimny or leaf sierra cause I just cant get parts for the coily most suppliers don't stock the parts because of the "small market"
Author:  Trebor [ Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
and poor suspension design
Author:  N.T. [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Bozy97 wrote:
Hey guys.
Wondering your opinions about which is better.
A leaf sprung Sierra or a Coil sprung Sierra?
Thanks


Asking this question on this forum before you made your purchase would have saved some mucking around. I owned two leafy sierra's before I convinced myself that I wanted a coily :cry: I had it for around 6 months and got rid of it. Now back in a leafy.
Author:  2stroker [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
The_Amateur wrote:
kenn wrote:
Bozy97 wrote:
I plan on having 30's or maybe 235's
No lockers. I'm not spending too much on it as I want to upgrade to a defender



This is not an upgrade !


Yes it is!

Just like when my mate upgraded to a Hilux, it had the advantages of being slower, less capable and less reliable!

All whilst costing way more money to repair 8)



If his hilux was slower and less reliable it must have had a Sierra carby on it. Seriously.... less reliable - No, slower - No, more to repair - No, less capable - It depends, i.e. I would suggest that carrying 4 people and enough camping gear and supplies to the Cape for a week a dual cab hilux may be a more capable and practical four wheel drive for that purpose than a Sierra. There are just as many circumstances that suit a Hilux, Patrol, Cruiser, Pajero etc as there is that suits a Sierra. Horses for courses, it's like choosing a kayak for creek and estuary and a 6 metre fishing boat for offshore.
Author:  Marko_SJ [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Two stroker, it was a 5L "EFI" diesel. They are complete slugs, if its not slower than a sierra its neck and neck. The 2.4d is just as crap from my observations of my other mates car, which had a turbo too (not personal experience). Maybe with the 22r or 3rz or whatever they are, they go better, but not the old diesels.

His car was certainly a lemon when he bought it. He's spent many thousands having it fixed, and its let him down more than his sierra ever did (in one year compared to four). They are good yes, when you buy properly, but hugely overrated. So yes, more expensive, slower and more unreliable than his sierra.

All up it owes him over 20K, coulda got a TD42 GQ for that, or a GU. :?
Author:  Bozy97 [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
I've been talking to someone.
They said coils will flex more.
Author:  Chop [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Bozy97 wrote:
I've been talking to someone.
They said coils will flex more.


Coils can and do flex more but not in a sierra coily! :wink:
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
I don't believe you.

Steve.
Author:  Red89 [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Bozy97 wrote:
I've been talking to someone.
They said coils will flex more.

What car does someone drive ?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Bozy97 wrote:
I've been talking to someone.
They said coils will flex more.


A coil Sierra has the same flex as a standard leaf Sierra, but a leaf Sierra is heaps easier to get to flex more.

People who think coils flex harder don't know anything about spring design.

Steve.
Author:  pezz [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
air shocks flex wicked
you cant remove leafs and still drive,
but you can remove coils and still drive,
therefore....
coily sierra is well wicked,
just drop the coils out and run shocks only
Author:  Bozy97 [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
wouldnt the car be all over the place then? and wouldnt it sag without coils?
Author:  Bozy97 [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
will jimny model springs fit a sierra
Author:  kenn [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
No different suspension design.
Author:  epitam [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
[this with 2" tjm springs but stock shock.. which mean stock travel.
i don't think it's bad for stock vehicle.. and no way the leaf stock do better.
Image
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Absoutely not epitam. A Leaf car with a bolt on suspension kit has the same scope for travel as a coil car with a bolt on suspension kit. However, the limitations of the design of the Coil sierra mean going beyond that amount of travel requires complex fabrication and design, which isn't the case with a leaf sierra, and is beyond the ability of most owners.

I'm not arguing that coil suspension is superior to leaf suspension. I have spent a lot of time converting my own car to coil springs because of their superiority. However, my coil springs only have 8" of travel and I'm really only using 6" of that travel, a figure that is easy to achieve with a leaf sprung sierra. The problem is not with coils, it's with the way the suspension on the coil Sierra is designed. Compare the suspension design on the rear of a coil sierra to that of a vitara for example.

Very few people ever design a radical suspension to work with leaf springs. This car uses coils (which dislocate) in the front and leaves (on drop boxes and telescopic shackles) in the rear. Both axles have the same amount of travel, and the rear suspension rides very smoothly. This car breaks pretty much every rule of suspension design, but it works very, very well for what it was built for. My point is that's more suspension movement than most of us dream of, but half of it is achieved with a landrover rear leaf spring with a leaf removed.

Image

Bozy97 - it's quite possible to remove the coil springs and drive the car. Yes, it will drive terribly, but it can be driven. A leaf sprung car con't be driven without the spring in place, because the spring locates the axle. In a coil car, the suspension links support the axle, not the spring.

Steve.
Author:  Bozy97 [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
dropping the shocks out will give greater travel?
I may aswell just make or find some dislocation cones?
anyone know a place to get them for a sierra?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Bozy, did you read this

Quote:
This car breaks pretty much every rule of suspension design, but it works very, very well for what it was built for


This car was built for driving very extreme terrain. It wasn't built for driving on the road. Its impossible to correlate what that car does to a coil sierra. (or a defender, for that matter) there is nothing even remotely like a regular production suspension underneath that car. I was only using it as proof that the type of spring is irrelevant to the amount of travel that can be achieved for those who still think coils somehow inherently have more travel than leaves.

Now to this again:

Quote:
This car breaks pretty much every rule of suspension design, but it works very, very well for what it was built for


The #1 rule of suspension design is that you need the suspension to support the car. This car breaks that rule and that's why it shouldn't work. Dislocation of springs and telescoping shackles are, in a normal vehicle a terrible idea that's strictly for posing on ramps. In use, a car that disconnects its springs isn't more capable in any way than a car that has its springs properly captured. This is true for a Defender on coils, the rear of a vitara with commodore shocks, or a sierra with scissor shackles. I could spend hours explaining why Bill's landrover there works despite dislocating its springs, but it's pointless - it just doesn't apply to what is possible with your vehicle.

Dropping the shocks out will make your car undriveable. Totally undriveable and very dangerous. In fact, in the front of your car, the shocks support the springs, so it's impossible to remove the shocks without also removing the springs.

Discolation cones are retarded. Once a spring is loose, it's not doing anything, and by that I mean it's no longer applying the vehicle's weight to the wheels. With no weight on the wheels where the spring is dislocated, there is no traction to drive the car, so that wheel just becomes a liability - stuck down in a hole with nothing to pull it out.

My car used to do this with its coil setup, so I fitted limit straps to prevent the springs dislocating. Bills car also does this, and it makes the car very difficult to recover if a wheel drops down into a hole it can't drive out of. Both Bill's landrover and my car have lockers though, so that helps. Put a car with no lockers and dislocated springs into a hole and it will pig root and pivot around the tyre that's down in the hole. It's embarassing, because without dislocated springs it would just drive out.

I'm talking from experience here. Don't confuse a car that looks radical flexed up with a car that's capable.

Steve.
Author:  azzas15 [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coils vs Leafs
Good read thanks Steve
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