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Sierra coily suspension issues
https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=43843		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  shippo's zook [ Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Sierra coily suspension issues
im wondering if anyone can tell me where I can get a front coil over for my sierra or if the jimny coil over will fit?
50mm lift
tough dog and drivetech don't make one as far as I know?
cheers
Author:  sideways [ Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
Jimnys don't run the strut setup that coilys do.

What exactly are you after, the shocks or the springs?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
You can get longer springs but the coil Sierra suspension design won't allow a longer strut so travel won't increase.

Steve.
Author:  Trebor [ Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
I am in the middle of a conversion from coily to jimny suspension yay loads of measurements to do to figure out how and where to weld the spring mounts and front shocks. And I have been and called so many suspension places all have either nothing or 30mm lift, some have made a kit but not any more
Author:  Trebor [ Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
I even went to perth 4x4 and adventure show and still nothing
Author:  shippo's zook [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
I have king springs all round and tough dog shocks in the back but wondering about the front strut? no one seems to do a coil over
Author:  epitam [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
You can make strut pretty easy.
This is how i made my first ones.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1139405602 ... April92012
The first try was with monroe senstrac 48cm opened.
And now on koni shock made for jimny so it suit the wheight of the coily and its 46cm opened.
Author:  shippo's zook [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
so its not possible to buy a front strut for a 50mm lift in a decent brand?
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
not that ive seen.
thus why people dont buy coilys
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
OK, my patience has deserted me.

Can someone, anyone, explain what makes a strut suitable for 50mm of lift?

Does that mean it's 50mm longer extended? Because that would mean it's 25mm longer compressed, and would therefore require 25mm bumpstop spacing, which means that a strut that's 50mm longer compressed will only net a 25mm increase in travel. It doesn't matter how you crunch the numbers, you're always on a loosing wicket.

You can't gain useful travel without raising the top mount.

I don't think that anyone thinks that a 50mm lift strut requires 25mm of bumpstop spacing.

I notice that epitam has about 25mm of bumpstop spacing with his 460mm extended shocks. That's pretty close to the same experience for leaf sprung sierras, and that's what's required to run a longer shock/strut.

Here's the measurements for a leaf spring sierra, for a comparison:

A Stock sierra front shock has 155mm of travel and a collapsed length of 265mm, extended length 425mm
An OME sierra front shock has 160mm of travel and a collapsed length of 280mm, extended length 435mm
So an OME shock uses up some "safety margin" in compression to allow 10mm more droop than standard

So how is the OME front shock good for a "50mm lift"? Simply it isn't, and that's because the travel available in a shock, when installed, is dictated by the position of the mounts. it has nothing to so with the springs.

Steve.
Author:  Bozy97 [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
f**k you know it all steve!! its awsome having someone like you for advice
Author:  atari4x4 [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
my mate jacko thinks differently.

dhgobby wrote:
You're all a bunch of pussy's on AZ,.gwagensteve...what a nerd he is. Needs to get away from the books for a while and get iut in the real world. Filled up with gogo juice again and you know what ? He is so wrong.
Author:  shippo's zook [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
soooo is it possible to get 40mm shocks then?
and will two inch springs fit on them?
Author:  Marko_SJ [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
atari4x4 wrote:
my mate jacko thinks differently.

dhgloryhole wrote:
You're all a bunch of pussy's on AZ,.gwagensteve...what a nerd he is. Needs to get away from the books for a while and get iut in the real world. Filled up with gogo juice again and you know what ? He is so wrong.


Can you compile all the outbackjack stuff into one dump thread?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
shippo's zook wrote:
soooo is it possible to get 40mm shocks then?
and will two inch springs fit on them?


What would make a 40mm shock different to a "standard" shock? Read my post again. An OME shock is 10mm longer overall than stock shock for a leaf sierra… so that what one company think is "lift" shock.

You're missing the point. (Not having a go - this nonsense about "lift" shocks is SO ingrained.)

Any strut ever made for a coil sierra is pretty much the same length as a standard strut. If you want a longer strut, you'll have to space the bumpstops down or move the upper mount higher up, of you want 40mm more travel to go with your 40mm longer springs. You'd need to drop the bumpstop 20mm downwards (and loose 20mm of compression travel) or move the top mount up 20mm, which is a fabrication job that's beyond most people.

Steve.
Author:  Reubs [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
From memory the extended length of the 'coily' Ultima struts is about 20mm longer than some stock ones.
Author:  31zook [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
Which one are you after?
Coilover?
Image
Strut?
Image
Jimny coil & shock?
Image
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
Reubs wrote:
From memory the extended length of the 'coily' Ultima struts is about 20mm longer than some stock ones.


Which is great, but what's their compressed length? I bet it's longer than the compressed length of a stock strut, so whilst it's longer, overall travel hasn't increased and some safety margin has been given up.

Steve.
Author:  jonno_racing [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
As much as that's true Steve my old coily was hard on the bump stops before the shock took up.
For a simple question you are over complicating it.
You can buy the true and tested 40mm lift kits for coilys. They give a nice ride. check ebay.
You MAY have issues bending struts (I didn't)
You will have issues with your strut tower. The shock will punvh through. This can be fixed quite easy.

So much hate on coily sierras mostly from people who have never owened one.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
That's exactly how it supposed to be- there should be 1" of shock travel left with the car hard on the Bumpstop. Eating up that safety margin is dumb, especially on a car renowned for breaking shock mounts.

So, as the coil sierra guru, what makes a coil front strut suited to a lift? When we has custom Koni struts made for the coil car I helped to set up, they weren't any longer than stock because there isn't any room.

Steve.
Author:  jonno_racing [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
I never said I was a guru. You're just being a smart ass.
I was starting the 40mm ebay kit works well. Its probably in 75% of sj80s on this forum.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
I wasn't taking issue with whether the kit was effective or not, people regularly ask for shocks and struts "for a 50mm lift" and I have no idea what that is. I was hoping someone could explain it to me because my tape measure tells me there isn't any such thing

You'll notice I haven't made any assertion about the quality or otherwise of the parts available or the design of the coil suspension, I just want to know what makes a shock or strut suited to "lift"

Steve.
Author:  JrZook [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
jonno_racing wrote:
As much as that's true Steve my old coily was hard on the bump stops before the shock took up.


What do you mean by hard on the bumpstop? Was that when flexing? If so I would not consider that "hard" on the bumpstop. The bumpstop will deform/compress significantly more when you hit a descent sized irregularity on or off road, hence the reason for the safety margin of addition shock travel once the diff hits the bumpstop. Reducing that margin, as you do with many kits out there (including leafys), is just asking for busted shocks and mounts.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
And with a coil sierra, the shock compresses further on flex than on vertical travel, so a hard landing on one wheel first will compress the shock further than the tape measure will indicate.

Steve.
Author:  JrZook [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
Replace bumpstop with hardwood! Dynamic compression measurements = static compression measurements. Solved!! ;)
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
You remember that thread too? :D

Steve
Author:  shippo's zook [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
I have a 40mm blue pac lift in it at the moment and coil spacers (15mm on the left and 30mm on the right as it leans to the right on flat ground)
and all I wanted to know was if I could get a better quality lift so that I didn't have to run coil spacers and my car still sat level?
Author:  Reubs [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
shippo's zook wrote:
I have a 40mm blue pac lift in it at the moment and coil spacers (15mm on the left and 30mm on the right as it leans to the right on flat ground)
and all I wanted to know was if I could get a better quality lift so that I didn't have to run coil spacers and my car still sat level?

Get some decent springs and note that the springs are specific to their respective side. I have had King Springs and Pedders ones and not had any problem with one side sagging more than the other - even stock springs with nearly 300K km on them didn't have a lean due to being the correct spring rate on each side.
Author:  shippo's zook [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
I have 2 inch lifted king springs will they be right to put on the 40mm shocks?
Author:  epitam [ Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra coily suspension issues
I'll take some measurments soon and upload them.

But still.
If you lift with 2" kit and able to keep the same amount of travel it still much better then put 2" spacers and loose closing travel
And when you decide to make custom made suspension there are lots of stuff to consider beside travel.
Like spring rate Like what you trying to gain.
From the many configs i tried i learned some basic rull which helped me to decide where i want to go:
Open travel - more for go further off road.
Closing travel - mostly for confort.
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