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G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
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Author:  ednorris [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
Hi Folks,

Over the past couple of weeks i have been tinkering about collecting up bits and pieces for my G16 conversion.
Finally get it going, spend about 20 min breaking it in and watching the temps, and I recon Sweet, everything is good to go! 8)

I drive it for about a day, have it checked by a mechanic, check the oil, everything is peachy. It seemed like there is a bit more torque at low rev's than the g13bb

About 50kms later i'm driving at about 70 with the top down and the music playing, and all of a sudden it stalls.
:(

So I pull off to the side of the road to start it with the bonnet open.

My friends notice the timing belt cover flapping as I try to crank it over.
8O

It turns out my cam shaft has broke right at the base of the sprocket.
:cry:

Anyways, one expensive call to Nrma and i am now a member getting towed home with my mates.

I have left the rocker cover on as I wanted to honestly present it to the wreckers to see if i can get it under warranty.

I had a peek down my oil cap and it seems that the cam is a bit dry with some carbon.

I had a call to suzuki, and they seemed pretty confident that a g16b has a interference style cam shaft so my head is most likely screwed over.

My guess is that this is because of a failed oil pump.

Anyone have any ideas as to whether this should be covered under warranty or not?

Id be stoked to hear you opinions, or maybe just consoled by similar stories of other epic fails.

Cheers,

Dean
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
suzuki don't know so much. The G16B is a free spinner. There won't be valve or piston damage.

I'd definitely try for warranty if you bought a complete motor from a wrecker.

Steve.
Author:  JrZook [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
ednorris wrote:
Finally get it going, spend about 20 min breaking it in and watching the temps


So was it a secondhand engine just from the wreckers or was it rebuilt?
Author:  ednorris [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
second hand engine
Author:  ednorris [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
And i hear that you don't really need to break in second hand motors if they haven't been rebuilt, but i learned that from the internet so i'm not really sure if its true.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
No need to break in a second hand motor - it's already broken in.

Steve.
Author:  JrZook [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
Ah righteo, well I'd be trying to get warranty on that one? Did you have the oil pressure light connected up?
Author:  Goldnomad [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
I have been down this track myself over a faulty auto box.
You do have rights under Australian Consumer Law.
Have a look at this site then talk to NSW Fair Trading about how to do it properly

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/C ... funds.page?
Author:  Reubs [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
If it's in a Jimny, who modified the oil pickup?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
Hmm - good call.
Author:  ednorris [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
thanks for the feedback.

They modified the sump and oil pickup.

I have just taken it back to the guys and they said they will have a proper look at it on Monday, which is a bit unfortunate as i will be overseas from Monday arvo for about 1.5 months.

Their preliminary estimate is that this issue might have been caused due to some type of pre-detonation / engine knock causing a timing belt misalignment.

Any ideas on the plausibility of this?

it seems possible but it seems a bit extreme to cause the cam to break.

Does any one know if there is any way to check if there was significant predetonation in my intake manifold? ie bits and peices of my IAC valve rattling around?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
Huh? Doesn't make any sense to me on an EFI motor. I vote cam ran dry- bearing picked up= snap.

You can time a g16b all over the place and it will still run, it won't snap a cam.

Steve.
Author:  kenn [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
Sounds to me like they're setting you up for a ripoff. I'd get an independent assessment done.
Or go straight to demanding a new engine, make some noise, complain and carry on continuously, they'll give you another engine just to shut you up.
Author:  KEENSY85 [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
What is the g16b out of ??
Im having a similar problem. It will run for 10 mim then stalls out. I tried another crank position sensor and cam sensor same deal when it stalls it wont prime the pump or send power to the pump no pulse to injecters and the relay for the for the fuel pump clicks :( kinda lost then a while latyer it will start and run like dream only to die again :/
Author:  2stroker [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
Hmmm so the wreckers modified the sump and pickup
Author:  KEENSY85 [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
2stroker wrote:
Hmmm so the wreckers modified the sump and pickup

Oops ;) missed that
Author:  kenn [ Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
2stroker wrote:
Hmmm so the wreckers modified the sump and pickup

And that's why I'd be demanding a new engine.
Author:  burls [ Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
I'm with Kenn
Start getting noisy as they say the squeaky wheel gets the oil but just don't overo do it. Let them know it is your daily driver and you need it back on the road fast
Author:  BenT [ Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
ednorris wrote:
I had a peek down my oil cap and it seems that the cam is a bit dry with some carbon.


If they had the head off the engine they may have put it back with the head gasket round the wrong way. Its easy to do as everything lines up except the cam oil feed and you end up running the top end dry = seized cam.


Ben
Author:  ednorris [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
Well found out the problem....

I have just got back from overseas and took a trip down to the wreckers.

Turns out the screws that hold the rocker shaft down were loose. Apparently the engine oil is pumped up through the rocker shaft and into the rockers lubricating the top half of the head from whatever splashes of the rockers. As the shaft was not tightened in there was a gap and i did not get oil pressure to my rockers. this caused the camshaft to dry out and eventually fail do to excessive friction and heat.

The head was completely destroyed.

The good news is the guys at the wreckers have replaced the head on warranty free of charge and without any arguing required.

hopefully ill be able to get her running again.
Author:  ednorris [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
howdy folks, time for an update

Got the new motor in and started it up. So. Much. Power.

It ran really well of the get go, then after about 5 min driving it the rpm started to drop on idle. As The Rpm get a bit low, i.e. 500 ish the oil pressure light starts to flicker.

At this point, it seems to me that the engine gets a bit gutless, then starts to need me giving it fuel so that it does not die.

I'm curious now whether this was the real reason that caused the cam shaft went in the first place

i popped my rocker cover off, cleaned up the oil from the tops of my bolts, started it up again, stopped it and removed the rocker cover again to see if oil was getting up to my cam. The bolts did have new oil on them (about half full on their rims) but i'm not sure if this is enough to be considered effective for the cam.

Does anyone know any quick ways to see if a head gasket was installed backwards? i don't really want to remove the head if i don't need to.
Additionally, does anybody know if the sump can be removed without taking out the engine or mucking with the steering / suspension? im a bit tempted to try to pull of my sump and inspect whether or not the pickup is all bunged up.

What are your opinions guys, anything that i'm not thinking of or that i should give a shot??

thanks again everyone
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
take it back again! tell them the issues. do not play with it your self until its 100 percent
Author:  3cyl [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
If you've starved it twice and driven it till it was down on power you want another engine, after all you paid for a good engine didn't you?
Author:  ednorris [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
yeah,

The thing is the wreckers is down in Sydney, and i live in Newcastle, so it is extremely inconvenient to pull the engine, drive down there, re install the engine etc.

In addition, I am past my 3 months from the original purchase (i went overseas for a month and a half while they fixed the motor) so i might not be as entitled as i would like to be.

Also what do you mean starved it? do you think it might be a problem with the fuel intake? (i just bought the motor the intake is off of my jimny)

anyways thanks for your opinions
Author:  3cyl [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
Oil starvation.
Author:  ednorris [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
ah i see what you mean... so you think that the low idle sounds like oil starvation symptoms? In you opinion how much oil is meant to get around in the head? Should everything be covered thick? is only some oil on the top of the bolts not enough? I haven't opened up to many heads so i'm not really sure what is normal.

Thanks
Author:  JrZook [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
ednorris wrote:
i popped my rocker cover off, cleaned up the oil from the tops of my bolts, started it up again, stopped it and removed the rocker cover again to see if oil was getting up to my cam. The bolts did have new oil on them (about half full on their rims) but i'm not sure if this is enough to be considered effective for the cam.


If you have the rocker cover off and the engine running, the cam should look like a stick thickly coated in honey. There should be oil dripping off it everywhere at a descent rate.
Author:  ednorris [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
thanks i might give this a try. Any suggestions how to do it, mines a Jimny with the coil packs on top of the rocker cover. Should i just float the coil packs in air with the rocker cover off? does anybody have a rig that they use to do this type of experement? im thinking of trying to make a clear "rocker cover" out of a plastic jug to try this.

thanks,

Dean
Author:  JrZook [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
Can you see the cam with the oil cap off?
Author:  ednorris [ Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G16 conversion to Snapped Cam shaft in 72hours
yeah you recon thats the best way to check?
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