[TomDK]

Hi

I know this question has been asked a few times before. But don't feel I have found the answer I'm looking for.

I believe I have read somewhere that Tough Dog springs are harder than Old Man Emu springs.

Can anyone with first hand experience in both springs confirm this?

Thanks,
Tom

[jimny_timmy]

Shitloads harder. Without going too far into it, unless your car is going to be filled to the brim with camping stuff, or you like thudding along bumpy tracks, get the ome. Or look into the jimbits lifts

[joel]

procomp are pretty good
i got the hd springs with the es9000 shocks,
a bit stiff for every day, but great on the ruff stuff and corrugations, postive handling on road around corners, not like a bowl of soup.

[Jezza86]

i found OME way too soft, and would do 360's in the spring retainer on the axle as a very noisy result.
i do not have this problem with my JB springs, which are a bit stiffer but handle extremely well on dirt and are predictable with no quirks with es5000 shocks.
if i was to go it again i think id go es1000 shocks, but only because im running 30psi (30X9.5s) in the tires and thats geting painfaull. 5000's are pretty stiff.

[TomDK]

Thanks Jimmy_timmy
My Jimny is used for competition, and have fitted an ORA winchbumper and a Warn 8274 with Flamin Fab twin motors. So a fairly heavy front. I the rear around 45 kgs of batteries and an OMP rollcage.

Suspension right now is a 4" ORA lift. But the springs seems pretty soft, and the Rough Country N2.0 shocks are also too soft. So I have fitted some good "long travel" bump stops to help the shocks. They are not Hydraulic ones, as I can't find the space for them. But it works pretty well.

I am asking about the Tough Tog springs as I'm considering them together with Fox 2.0 shocks with external reservoir

The Fox shocks I have found to suit the Jimny are a bit shorter than the ones I use now, so the +80mm TD springs should work fine, at least regarding the length

Jezza86, are the JB springs custom made?
I had OME springs before the ORA springs I have now. And find the springs way too soft. And the OME shocks as well.

[Abraxix]

i can confirm with Jumny_Timmy -- Tough Dog is solidas a rock unless you're totally loaded up, my X-90 was the same and unless i was loaded the springs / Shocks combo was solid as a rock.
as for OME my brother had them in his X-90 -- for a short period and when i drove it with those in, it was LOOSE i felt like i was going to topple the car onto it's side, but that is more than likely just because my ride was like a go-kart no suspenssion it was that solid, however his car alwasy rode properly and really well on the road and off the road, he upgraded and went straight King springs very shortly after that and found them to be a really really good mid field spring for what he wanted!!!

needless to say i've since sold my X-90 and bought our XL7 - will be going with Kings

[Jezza86]

you would have to ask if you wanted a specific spring rate, but if you were going to do that id probably give dobinsons a call, as they are pretty good at taylor making springs to a quoted spring rate.
i read somwhere that the standard jimny springs were 21kg/mm but i can in no way confirm that.
perhaps call td and see if you can get them to quote their springrate?

[Gwagensteve]

I don't think that's right- that works out at 1173.5 lb/"

I think maybe 2.1kg/mm would be closer, but sounds a touch low to me. I would have thought that around 150lb/" would have been closer- that's 2.68kg/mm

Steve.

[Jezza86]

Ok so OME springs go like this. i was thinking newtons but saying KG lol
Front to 35kg (additional accessory weight allowance) petrol#2963 or Diesel #2965
Front 36 to 85 KG(additional accessory weight allowance) petrol #2965 or Diesel # 2969
Rear 2966 (suits right hand drive Models with a 20mm higher right hand side coil.)
#2963 146lb/in 26N/mm OEM120lb/in
#2965 146 lb/in 26 N/mm OEM120lb/in (taller but standard rate)
#2969 170 lb/in 30 N/mm OEM150lb/in

[Jezza86]

source

[Jezza86]

this from monley in a pm from a few years back

monley wrote:

"

Wouldn't recommend the tough dog lift to any one....to firm on road and off road( shit on corrugations ) . OME is very soft on and off road...to soft if you ask me. The lift i have is NOT legal , but i have not had any issue's with cops or anything yet ( touching wood). BTW we don't have to have the road worthy thing you guy's have to go through - so it's a non issue for me .

I would recommend the 75MM jimny bit's lift with the front arm's, shocks, spring's etc...work's out cheaper than the TD lift as well .

I have blown out one TD shock to date in the past 12months...
"

[jimny_timmy]

I'd probly look into just replacing your front springs to start with. The rear of the jimny is quite light. I carry around 60kgsin the back constantly in mine and the tough dogs didn't have any mercy till I had probly another 50 kgs of camping gear in the car... Just my two cents worth

[TomDK]

Thanks for all the help guys.
Could probably try looking a other front springs first. It's a bit of trial and error really, as there are not a lot of people using their Jimny for competition.

Don't know if the JimnyBits springs are any harder, I believe the have a version for Diesel engine Jimny, right?

Also found a thread a few years old about TD springs binding. That certainly made me reconsider TD springs. Otherwise I'll have to look at custom made springs, which will probably be rather expensive.
As it's not possible to alter the spring and shock mounts of the Jimny I only have a limited selection of shocks available. I found a couple of Fox shocks and a shock from Bilstein. Which will have to suit the length of the spring.

[Zook_Fan]

Why is it not possible to alter the mounts? Comp rules?

If your springs now hold the car up to the height that you want and they are soft than they are perfect. You want the softest possible spring that will hold the weight of the car. Get a tunable shock and start tuning it. Your car will thank you for it.

That OME spring #2969 with a spring rate of 170 lb/in is high. My sierra buggy with a v6, twin motor lowmount and I'd guess a lot more tubework than your jimny is only set up for a spring rate of 72.91lb/in in the front and 62.5in/lb in the rear. Spring it soft, valve it hard. Control suspension movement with a tunable device (suspension damper) not a spring.

[TomDK]

Zook_Fan wrote:

Why is it not possible to alter the mounts? Comp rules?

If your springs now hold the car up to the height that you want and they are soft than they are perfect. You want the softest possible spring that will hold the weight of the car. Get a tunable shock and start tuning it. Your car will thank you for it.

That OME spring #2969 with a spring rate of 170 lb/in is high. My sierra buggy with a v6, twin motor lowmount and I'd guess a lot more tubework than your jimny is only set up for a spring rate of 72.91lb/in in the front and 62.5in/lb in the rear. Spring it soft, valve it hard. Control suspension movement with a tunable device (suspension damper) not a spring.

Thanks for you answer

It is because of danish law. Lots of rules sadly. To enter competition here in Denmark the vehicle has to be road-legal. My Jimny is a RHD I got cheap from UK.
I have about 8-9 cm of up-travel and 15 cm down-travel on the front-axle as it is now, which isn't bad at all.
Only thing that annoys me a bit is the driver side spring making some twanging noise when taking a hard hit. This spring is a bit longer than the passenger side, due to the Jimny lean. My bump stops have helped much on this noise, when going a bit fast offroad. But not fixed it entirely.

But I guess you're right. Perhaps I should concentrate on tuneable shocks instead. Those Fox shocks looks pretty interesting

[Gromet]

how hard are king springs? I got tough dog shocks and have a fair bit of weight in the rear.

[Zook_Fan]

That is pretty good travel and a 10" fox shock would suit it nicely. If the spring is binding on a hard hit than perhaps look into a custom spring on that side that is a slightly heavier spring rate to take the weight without being physically longer than the passenger spring.

This can be done with thicker diameter rod or tighter coils over the same free length. You can calculate the bound length of your passenger spring by multiplying the coil diameter by the number of coils. Also do this for your current driver spring to check that spring bind is your issue. Compare those lengths with the distance from the bumpstop to the chassis. If the spring bound length is longer than your bumpstops are not long enough. Remember that your bumpstops can squish quite a bit in high impact scenarios.

[Jezza86]

i have a pair of the diesel OME 2" springs. the jb ones i replaced them with after 5000k are definetey a firmer spring with a higher rate then the OME diesel spring
got sick of the ome body roll
bow i have more flex less body roll and thats without a front sway bar...

[Zook_Fan]

But as a trade off you now have a spring that is heavier than required to make up for other suspension flaws. Great if it works for you, and on road going cars there is always a trade off, in your case the car will not handle as good as if you had a good sway bar and nice light springs. Your weight is generally changing rapidly and your suspension has to adapt to a large range of different scenarios.

However the OP is talking about a competition vehicle which to me is a completely different thing all together. Once set up, the car will stay roughly the same weight on each corner and only rules that are imposed dictate the compromises you must take.

[Jezza86]

i find that my mid range cornering speed is 20kph higher as the car has a more predictable overseer characteristics with no sway bar and jb springs with procomp shocks
this is compared to diesel OME springs and OME shocks with a standard sway bar on the same roads.
while mine may be considered a road going car, my "roads" consist of 800km of corrugated dirt highway with a mixture of dynamic corners, undulating terrain, concreted bridges covered in gravel, large potholes and the occasion buffalo to swerve to miss. theres also bush taxis that come at you doing 120 on your side of the road that you get the fun of trying not to get hit by.
now i have a high range gear reduction i wont be doing more than 120Kph but i find that driving dynamicly through mid to low speed corners this suspension is fantastic. i have only hit bump stops once, and that was hiting a pothole after a washout at nearly 80 kph. did the same thing with the OME suspension last year and the car ended up facing the opposite direction. i dont have much body roll at all as there isnot much traction to be had which is why this setup works for me. higher traction means more body roll
the car needs to set up for the track and conditions its runing on the day. you could have a truck of spare parts and play forever to get it right if you had the $ and track time.

[TomDK]

Yes, the Jimny is for comp use. Don't care how it handles on-road

I have written to ORA, about that driver side spring. Because it's a bit longer than the passenger side spring it tends to bind.

About shocks. I'm still not sure what to choose.
2 options. Either Fox 2.0 10" travel with external reservoir or Bilstein 5165, which are a bit cheaper, but not quite sure what the options are for revalving Bilstein shocks to required specifications. The Bilstein shock is still interesting because it matches the length of my springs and suspension travel very well.