[HDG05]

Hi All

I'm selling my little Sierra Soft Top, and looking at a more comfortable choice of weekend off roader.
I no very little about the vitara's, just what I've picked up from the forums. I'm currently looking for the right grand vitara for my budget(up to $5k) and needs. I don't want the modern shape (2005 onwards), but want something around 2000-2004. I still want it be very capable off road, which is why I wanted at least the solid rear axle. There are many things I want to find out, to help me make the most informed decision, but firstly the most important thing in my mind is the engine choice in the Grant Vitara range from 2000-2004. I'm not even sure if I want the 4 or 6 cylinder? I just want some recommendations about the best engine in the range in terms of reliability, cost & ease of repairs, and expected life before looking at rebuilding etc. I'm sure there must be a clear winner in this department, and with a massive amount of combined experience from the Vitara owners on this forum, I'm sure I'll get the right advice. The online car sites appear to have a lot more V6's available for sale, was this the most popular engine choice in this range of Vitara's?

Thanks for your help.

[henno]

Get the H25A in manual in any year or 2003 onwards in auto. Plenty better than the H20A and will have a steel front diff.

Failing that, my SWB J20A kicks all kinds of ass, albeit with an alloy front diff (for now). I also like knowing that if I lunch the engine it isn't going to cost me a motza to drop a new one in.

In my opinion the J20 in the shorty or the H25 in the LWB are the picks (the G16B SWB and H20A LWB are, in comparison, both left wanting for power in my view). $5k will be a hell of a stretch though; maybe look for a 99-2000-ish 2.5L with as few kms as possible. Just check cold starts for any timing chain rattle and the rear main seal is often gone in a lot of them.

[Built4thrashing]

2.5 V6. in either Manual or auto...... Manual will have steel front diff. auto will be better for offroad but will need a steel diff swap.

[offroadjack]

H25 anytime. Seen them clocking up 360.000 k's no problem and that one only went bang because the owner didn't want to replace the timing gear and it let go but would have don more k's if he would have had it done.
Very reliable engine and more powerful then the j20
The j20 is easier to work on but the only time you would open that bonnet is when servicing it, not much goes wrong with them.

[zoukshin]

Have the H25 - quite happy with it. V6 manual goes quite well.
One thing to consider for your case; think about a recent XL-7 - they have some limitations over the GV's but the extra boot space could be a winner. V6 2.7 manual or auto.

Also, If I was in Europe, I'd love the turbo-D engine in the GV's

[murcod]

The later model updated XL-7's also have the five speed auto (earlier models were only four speeds, like the auto V6 Grand Vitara's.) Remove the rear seats and you get a very large cargo area and still have five seats.

[Gwagensteve]

From what I've seen, the V6 Manual GV is very hard to drive smoothly off road - I think it's a combination of low torque at low revs, a sensitive throttle and a hydraulic clutch. I wouldn't generally ever recommend a manual for off road work, and that's especially the case with a V6 GV. The manuals are straight out difficult to drive.

The 4 cylinder seems to lack a bit of power IMHO in the LWB GV.

If you still want the car to be "very capable" off road, you don't want an XL-7. They are looooong so ramp over is a huge issue. Lift and tyre size options are the same as for a GV, so you can't easily just throw in more lift to compensate for the increased wheelbase. They're also heavier and have the internal capacity to carry more weight, but they are mechanically identical (see note below) so I definitely wouldn't recommend one.

If you are genuinely interesting in a vehicle that is "very capable" off road, then I'm going to be brutally honest and say that a GV isn't really the right car. Whilst they go all right off road, they are fragile. In fact, every time I've seen a GV/Vitara come on a trip, we seem to see a CV or diff failure. Whilst there are workarounds for all of this stuff, you're really just moving the breakage point around (or upstream into more costly/complex things to fix and upgrade) You need to be very honest about your budget. 4-5K is going to get a fairly rough GV In my opinion. you're going to need to add wheels and tyres, lift, lockers, Steel diff depending on model, 5.12 diff gears, RHS CV upgrade at the least, and hilux CV's ideally. Diff gear swapping and or locker fitment is going to require professional setup. I think your modification budget is going to exceed your purchasing budget by some amount.

This is very dependant on your definition of "very capable" though. In comparison to a lightly built WT sierra, It's very difficult and costly to make a GV as capable. If it's in comparison to a standard GV, yes, there are large capability gains to be had before the car becomes fragile or frustrating. Have a good read of ninjamoses, klutched and Builtforthrashing's build threads before you dive in.

Steve.

[zoukshin]

HDG05, I only have my experience to speak for, but after driving off road (no rock/mud stuff, mostly sand tracks), even with a stock GV2, I am yet to pop a CV. 2" lift and bigger tyres are the only big mods I have done (still quite cheap) and I can say my car IS really capable off road (again, sandy stuff, thanks to all the beaches, tracks and Islands around Brissy).

I'm with Steve on the other kind of off-roading. Some people keep popping CVs and grinding diff crowns but I reckon their car is quite modified and abused too - but as he said, you'd be looking at lockers and a bit more lift, diff drops and parts replacements.

There is a consensus that keeping the lift at less than 2" is somewhat a safe change for GVs. Plenty of arguments and debates in existing threads about that.

Just my 2cts.

[Built4thrashing]

If you want a hard core but un-comfy wheeler get a sierra.
If you want something to tour the high country in then get a GV.

GV's do have a weak spot... Front Drivers CV's are easy to break and are a pain to swap. (unless you've done it frequently like me)
40mm lift and some 225/75/16 tyres are a simple way to get more ground clearance. Any bigger than that and things become complicated and breakages are more frequent.

40mm lift is easily done for under $1000. (springs, shocks, camber bolts)
The next 40mm will set you back about double that. (diff drop brackets, bump stop spacers, coil spacers Pan hard re-locators, longer rear shocks, brake lines, custom sway bar links) and bigger tyres will se you cutting into the flares and hammering the guards so the don't rub.

As for diff locks.... Air lockers, lockright, Spartin, and spools can be fitted and everyone has their own opinion on what to get...

I had a Highly modded Sierra and loved it but the family out grew it.
The GV was the obvious choice.

[Gwagensteve]

Built4thrashing wrote:

I had a Highly modded Sierra and loved it but the family out grew it.
The GV was the obvious choice.

This is the bit I struggle with. I don't think a GV is an "obvious" choice if a Sierra is now too small/uncomfortable or whatever. Trying to get a light duty vehicle to do medium or heavy duty work is silly. Touring the high country in a car that's borderline fragile and likely overloaded whilst running a 28" tyre seems like the scales have tipped too far the other way. Good on you B4T for working with a GV, but I don't think it's the [i}]obvious[/i] choice at all, nor would I recommend one as the foundation for a "very capable" off road car, which is apparently what the OP is looking for.

I'd be looking at an XJ Cherokee, a ZJ Grand Cherokee, A Discovery, A Surf, A Jackeroo… (actually maybe especially a jackeroo) There's a large number of medium duty vehicles that are much better suited to doing medium duty work.

I frequently get dubbed a hater for suggesting that someone should buy something other than a Suzuki, meh. I reckon helping people choose the right car for the job is more relevant. B4T, would you recommend a Sierra if the OP wanted a comfortable cruising car? I'm confident you wouldn't. Likewise, I wouldn't recommend a GV as a basis for a very capable off road car.

Steve.

[Marko_SJ]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Built4thrashing wrote:

I had a Highly modded Sierra and loved it but the family out grew it.
The GV was the obvious choice.

This is the bit I struggle with. I don't think a GV is an "obvious" choice if a Sierra is now too small/uncomfortable or whatever. Trying to get a light duty vehicle to do medium or heavy duty work is silly. Touring the high country in a car that's borderline fragile and likely overloaded whilst running a 28" tyre seems like the scales have tipped too far the other way. Good on you B4T for working with a GV, but I don't think it's the [i}]obvious[/i] choice at all, nor would I recommend one as the foundation for a "very capable" off road car, which is apparently what the OP is looking for.

I'd be looking at an XJ Cherokee, a ZJ Grand Cherokee, A Discovery, A Surf, A Jackeroo… (actually maybe especially a jackeroo) There's a large number of medium duty vehicles that are much better suited to doing medium duty work.

I frequently get dubbed a hater for suggesting that someone should buy something other than a Suzuki, meh. I reckon helping people choose the right car for the job is more relevant. B4T, would you recommend a Sierra if the OP wanted a comfortable cruising car? I'm confident you wouldn't. Likewise, I wouldn't recommend a GV as a basis for a very capable off road car.

Steve.

Hi Steve, if you see this, would you mind elaborating on the Jackeroo?

Nobody ever really mentions them, could you go through what makes it your pick?**

**Interested to have it explained logically rather than owners testimonies or anecdotes, sell the Jackeroo to me or anyone who will be looking for a larger vehicle in the future, over the usual rigs.

[murcod]

Hmmmm.... do some googling on diesel Jackeroos, they can have well known and expensive engine problems.

Also, the bit about XL-7 being mechanically identical is interesting. Some things that pop straight to mind : larger capacity engine, heavier duty rear diff (with lower ratio) and 5 spd auto in the later series. Yes, they're more limited off road, but also more family friendly and possibly more comfortable?

[Built4thrashing]

If the OP is on a tight budget I see the GV as a good compromise. Parts are cheap and easy to find and they are still a lot smaller than the other options you gave which is a bonus when off road.

And its a Suzuki what else could possibly be better?

[Built4thrashing]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Trying to get a light duty vehicle to do medium or heavy duty work is silly. Touring the high country in a car that's borderline fragile and likely overloaded whilst running a 28" tyre seems like the scales have tipped too far the other way. .

Steve.

I don't think Suzuki ever intended a Sierra to have bigger tyres than a 30 or do the sort of wheeling we do........ but that doesn't stop people trying......

[offroadjack]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Built4thrashing wrote:

I had a Highly modded Sierra and loved it but the family out grew it.
The GV was the obvious choice.

This is the bit I struggle with. I don't think a GV is an "obvious" choice if a Sierra is now too small/uncomfortable or whatever. Trying to get a light duty vehicle to do medium or heavy duty work is silly. Touring the high country in a car that's borderline fragile and likely overloaded whilst running a 28" tyre seems like the scales have tipped too far the other way. Good on you B4T for working with a GV, but I don't think it's the [i}]obvious[/i] choice at all, nor would I recommend one as the foundation for a "very capable" off road car, which is apparently what the OP is looking for.

I'd be looking at an XJ Cherokee, a ZJ Grand Cherokee, A Discovery, A Surf, A Jackeroo… (actually maybe especially a jackeroo) There's a large number of medium duty vehicles that are much better suited to doing medium duty work.

I frequently get dubbed a hater for suggesting that someone should buy something other than a Suzuki, meh. I reckon helping people choose the right car for the job is more relevant. B4T, would you recommend a Sierra if the OP wanted a comfortable cruising car? I'm confident you wouldn't. Likewise, I wouldn't recommend a GV as a basis for a very capable off road car.

Steve.

Agreeing with you here..
The GV or XL-7 will give you a lot more room but if you are are looking at more then a weekend toy you be looking at a GQ patrol or a 80 series cruiser.
The GV with its shorter wheel base would Get you a lot of places the bigger rigs go but it needs a bit of know how to follow them, but with that knowledge you'll surprise them !
They are capable .. Very much so, but it takes some vehicle knowledge and feeling to actually out drive them big ones.
So many people crack diffs, cv's etc trying..
There is no shame in admitting you don't have that know how and a tuff vehicle like a GQ/GU or an 80 series cruiser would suit you a lot better if you intend to get out into knowhere...

[kenn]

Buy a 2.5 v6 auto and hassle joeblow about portals and the secret project, then when there done give him some money, bolt stuff on car and enjoy your new capable, comfortable tourer.

[DarkHorse]

Your budget is immediately restrictive, even before you get into modifications or any of the pro/con discussion above.

$5k will not get you a good GV unless you get really lucky (there were a couple going on here a few months back) but generally for that you'll be looking at an early model, high mileage, average condition GV with very little in the way of mods/accessories, so to get it offroad you'll immediately be up for a couple of grand more.

Steve's list is similar - older Discos, Jackaroos and Cherokees can be found for that sort of coin, but you'd be very lucky to find anything later than early 2000s. If you wanted to look bigger you might find a decent GQ, but it will have done some distance. Doubt you'd even find a clapped out 80 let alone a 100 or a GU.