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twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46319		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Xtreme [ Tue May 20, 2014 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
I would like to find more info on running twin transfers in a 99 Jimny. I have a WT sierra case to go in, would like to change to an auto jimny box or something else that works.

What parts would be needed? what work involved?

Would like to go to 33's - currently on 31s
Author:  zukenutter [ Tue May 20, 2014 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
This would be pretty hard to achieve. Jimny is short so not a lot of room to get decent shaft angles plus you'd have a nasty angle between the rear output of Transfer 1 to the input of Transfer 2. There's at least one other thread on this topic and the general consensus has been to just swap the gears in the single transfer.
Author:  Reubs [ Tue May 20, 2014 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
A single Sierra case with reduction gears will be ample for a Jimny on mere 33s.
Author:  Xtreme [ Wed May 21, 2014 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
I was going to do it more so to try not to affect the gearing in high range just so I had more low range gearing but I guess what zukenutter said with the shaft angles will put too much pressure on joints anyway
Author:  zukenutter [ Wed May 21, 2014 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
I have layed under my Jimny a few time over the years pondering the practicality, turns out there is none ;)
If you wanted to avoid changing high range the second transfer would need a 1:1 high range, the only case with this is Jimny and maybe Vitara. I'm far from a Vitara expert but I think they have the transfer attached to the gearbox, if so a Vitara gearbox and transfer swapped in and linked to your existing transfer may work. but you'd still have all sorts of shaft angle and length issues. Custom shafts all round too.

Would be cool to have an extra stick ;)
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Wed May 21, 2014 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Most transfer cases have a 1:1 high range
Author:  Xtreme [ Wed May 21, 2014 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
I did see a 'Twin Stick' for a single transfer I think somewhere before but did not understand its application. Does shifting the front axle forward help at all with the angle of the shaft? same for the rear if I can move them further apart and increase the wheelbase? At the end of the Day if that puts too much pressure on joints because of the length of the shaft then Ill go with gearing change as I was originally going to . I have the WT Sierra case ready to go in except for the gears so I can just do that but did not want it to be too much of a slug on the highway as it makes for a dreary drive to the tracks.

Anyone ever heard of the Isuzu 4EE1 1.7l Diesel motor?
Author:  Jezza86 [ Wed May 21, 2014 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Zook_Fan wrote:
Most transfer cases have a 1:1 high range

in jimnys only the 2006+ vvt manual box is 1:1
everything else is 1:1.32 according to whats documented, but theirs more out there.
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Wed May 21, 2014 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Jezza86 wrote:
Zook_Fan wrote:
Most transfer cases have a 1:1 high range

in jimnys only the 2006+ vvt manual box is 1:1
everything else is 1:1.32 according to whats documented, but theirs more out there.


Sure but you wouldn't put a divorced transfer in front of another. Jimny, Sierra and LT230's all provide high range gearing reductions but the majority of transfers do not.

If you were looking to do this to a 99 Jimny I'd be using a Vitara AW4 with a sierra case behind it. Joeblow has managed to fit it all in Sierra's so it's probably possible to fit in a Jimny.
Author:  jdk81 [ Wed May 21, 2014 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
A vit gearbox, with vit xfer and sierra case can be done.

Most of the dual xfer cases I have seen use vit and 1.0L cases, which offers ratios of
HH 1.58, LH 2.88, HL 2.51, LL 4.57.
Its a lot of work and effort to package, and a set of 4.16 is readily available.

You could do dual cases using a set of 4.16, for
HH 1.58, LH 2.88, HL 4.16, LL 7.57.
This offers a more useful spread of gears, but the 7.57 would be fairly useless, especially if you were using an auto.
I wouldnt use any other ratios, as it will most likely pop the case and/or offer near useless gears in compound low (LL)

If you want deeper ratios, you could bastardise a set of 6.5s, and a 1.0L (rocklobster style) to get 1.58 high, and approx 4.98 low. Which would still be less work, than trying to squeeze twin xfers in.

Pretty much pissing in to the wind for little to no gain, more work, more weight, more chances of misalignment and oil leakage.

Id look at a set of xfer gears in the sierra case and call it done.

EDIT : added some other combos
Stock sierra xfer + vit xfer (not worth the effort)
HH 1.41, LH 2.56, HL 2.27, LL 4.13

vit xfer and 6.5 gears
HH 1.69, LH 3.08, HL 6.5, LL 11.83
IMO way too deep in compound low, and I wouldnt expect the case to be happy. But would be an good spread of gears in a manual that did technical work and beaches etc. But I would make it lock out low-low, so you cant engage it and pop the case.
Gearing would be off in a jimny though
Author:  zukenutter [ Wed May 21, 2014 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Zook_Fan wrote:
Most transfer cases have a 1:1 high range


Not if they're Suzukis LOL. Maybe GVs but they don't count :rofl:
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Wed May 21, 2014 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Some people look beyond suzuki's limited options when they are building ;)
Author:  Xtreme [ Wed May 21, 2014 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Zook_Fan wrote:
Some people look beyond suzuki's limited options when they are building ;)


I thought you are only limited by your imagination and where there is a will there is a way.

But having said that I dont want something unreliable or useless. Just asking the questions so I can weigh up options.

I thought the rock lobster box's turned out fairly expensive?

At this stage after seeing feedback I am thinking of just going to an Auto Jimny box (As they are a bit lower ratio then the manual is that correct?) and then doing the gears in the sierra tf as I was originally going to do
Author:  zukenutter [ Wed May 21, 2014 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Zook_Fan wrote:
Some people look beyond suzuki's limited options when they are building ;)


You didn't mention that, the chat had been based on what OP had on hand already. Transfers from bigger 4x4s are heavier and bigger, so more of a problem fitting and the power loss from turning them would be a factor too. Just saying but agree that there are plenty of non Suzuki 1:1 options.
Author:  Bugsta [ Wed May 21, 2014 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
If you can hold off a while, I will have some gearing options for VVT manual boxes soon. Probably around 70% in low. There will also be a couple of options for high range. One will be 17% and likely the most popular choice for 29's~32's

edit: sorry, overlooked the '99'. This won't work for you.
Author:  SierraDan [ Wed May 21, 2014 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Best twin transfer option would be a Vitara box and a Vit/Sierra doubler setup.
Author:  Xtreme [ Wed May 21, 2014 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
SierraDan wrote:
Best twin transfer option would be a Vitara box and a Vit/Sierra doubler setup.


Wont this still leave me with the severe angle problem still even if it can work?
Author:  jdk81 [ Wed May 21, 2014 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Xtreme wrote:
SierraDan wrote:
Best twin transfer option would be a Vitara box and a Vit/Sierra doubler setup.


Wont this still leave me with the severe angle problem still even if it can work?


It can work, it can be packaged to fit but its not worth the effort.
Author:  Xtreme [ Wed May 21, 2014 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
that seems to be the general consensus so I will stick with the original plan. Is everyone suggesting Vit auto for a reason? Is that better to go with then a Jimny Auto then mate that up to the Sierra box?
Author:  SierraDan [ Wed May 21, 2014 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
You do away with the jackshaft so there is fuck all difference in driveline length if you do a good job of the doubler.
Author:  Xtreme [ Wed May 21, 2014 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Well I am no engineer and its hard to picture how it all works which is why I ask the questions on here as everyone seems pretty switched on but the drawback is that there are sometimes very conflicting opinions on whats good to do, not to do, what works and what does not sometimes it makes it harder for those who do not know to make a choice (not that I am complaining I like to see both sides of the coin).

So if anyone is able to give detailed information on
Parts needed
Work/Steps involved
Benefits or disadvantages

Then that will put all the cards on the table for everyone to discuss (yes I know many have said what parts etc to use but I was talking a further detailed description and then maybe those with the greatest know how can determine for the rest of us mugs wether this is a worthwhile en-devour - as for me I am usually happy just to try something to see if it works or not
Author:  Jezza86 [ Wed May 21, 2014 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
i just looked at the diagram for a 99 transfer, and it makes me wonder if you built your own custom housing and mounts if you could use the FWD output as an input, and the RWD output into the 2nd transfercase.
dog clutch for 2wd/4wd engagement would have to be locked shut, but the planetary set would switch you from 1:1 down to 1:2.
if you could sacrifice a transfer you could just cut the input half off the transfer and plate up the gap where the chain drive was from the original input. surely the front and rear output shafts are shorter then the jackshaft length.
Author:  Red89 [ Wed May 21, 2014 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
This one was done by Bazooked and is a Vit box and TC and Sierra TC, in a Sierra but gives you an idea of whats involved.

Image
Image
Image
Author:  jdk81 [ Wed May 21, 2014 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,46349.0.html

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38496&hilit=dual+xfer
Author:  SierraDan [ Thu May 22, 2014 5:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Jezza86 wrote:
i just looked at the diagram for a 99 transfer, and it makes me wonder if you built your own custom housing and mounts if you could use the FWD output as an input, and the RWD output into the 2nd transfercase.
dog clutch for 2wd/4wd engagement would have to be locked shut, but the planetary set would switch you from 1:1 down to 1:2.
if you could sacrifice a transfer you could just cut the input half off the transfer and plate up the gap where the chain drive was from the original input. surely the front and rear output shafts are shorter then the jackshaft length.

Planetary?
I cant find a diagram of the Jimny transfer but aren't they just a weird and chain driven Sierra case? So what you said above would be 1:1 as the front and rear shafts run at the same speed.
Author:  Jezza86 [ Thu May 22, 2014 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
yeh i realized what id typed was completely flawed after i typed it. then did some more thinking

basically i want to flip the rear drive shaft and stick it through the sun gear backwards. pull the chain drive sprocket off the ring gear and make a new input shaft with the same key way as the old sprocket.
drive entering the input shaft turns the ring gear, the high low fork is actuated by a cable, for example, causing the output shaft to get 1:1 or 1:2
the whole deal could be standardized with different length output shafts to suit the jack shaft length required.


Image
Author:  Xtreme [ Thu May 22, 2014 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
Isnt it better to go with a different transfer case rather then the Jimny chain driven one? Isnt the chain the weak link and part of the reason (apart from more gearing selection) that people use sierra transfer?
Author:  Jezza86 [ Thu May 22, 2014 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: twin transfers in a Jimny - whats needed
yes, but you don't need the chain driven part of it, just the planetary set of gears, the fork and housing that causes the engagement and high/low switching, a custom input shaft and custom houseing to put it all in/ bolt it up with.
looking at the diagram the planetary set is short enough it could be put in front of the stock transfers input shaft.
i did this in paint... so not ideal
Image
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