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Supercharging a G16B
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Author:  RIKSTR [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Supercharging a G16B
Hey Guys,

Just wait until you launch into telling me off.

My truck now has 37"s on it and with the 4.24 crawl gears and the 4.88 diff gears it could do with a little more power.
I was going to wait and do a H25 conversion but I have come into possession of a SC12 from a 4AGZE.

If I both this up and run low and I mean low 5 PSI low will the computer handle it? Will I need to chuck in some bigger injectors?

I have a guy that does work for WOLF and might be able to swing a computer to run it but I want to know if I have to?

Thoughts???

Image
Author:  RIKSTR [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Oh, and I have been searching here for like 2 hrs trying to find the answer.
Author:  31zook [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Can't see why not.

And no one that I know of has done it, so if you have the cash and time be the first :D
Author:  JrZook [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Have to do the calcs but because the SC12 pumps out 1200cc/rev you might have to spin it up quite fast to feed the H25 boost. This may end up past the max rpm ratings of the SC. The slightly large SC14 might be a better option. 5psi you may get away with just running the standard injectors and a rising rate fuel reg. Similar to how brenno charged his jimny 1.3. As soon as you go larger injectors you will have to go aftermarket comp to run them.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
mart charged his g13 back in the day...

Jr, pretty sure rick is still going to be running the 1.6 for now.
Author:  bakerboy [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
The s/charged zook that came in to work all the time a few years ago started on the SC12, but then ditched it for the SC14 as it was running out off puff (and that was a g16b), ran a W2A IC, similar boost and pretty certain 5th injector with RR fuel reg
Author:  MrRocky [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Ecu first otherwise its just a matter of time before it rattles to death.
Might last a day might last 2 years
Author:  got_bar_work [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Would nos be a option.
Author:  SierraDan [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
31zook wrote:
time be the first :D

Not the first.
Author:  droverdave [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Buy an aftermarket computer, and get the engine running well without the supercharger. That will be a fairly large project in itself. After you have done that you will either understand how an ecu operates and be able to progress to supercharging, or will have given up.

Then you will need to design your injector size and fuel pump sizes based on how much boost/hp you want to run.

Then you will need to get your fabrication hat on and go nuts with custom stuff.

Google image searching G16 supercharger reveals you wont be the first....

This install is pretty neat, must have a little bonnet scoop to go with it.

Image

Image
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
That's Gonzalo Bravo's sierra, which held (holds?) the world altitude record for a car. He now has a 2JZ in it. Sorry, no tech to add but thought you might be interested in that little bit of trivia.

Steve.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
^^^ pretty substantial build thread on outers if remember correctly.
Author:  31zook [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
SierraDan wrote:
31zook wrote:
time be the first :D

Not the first.



Who else has charged a H25?
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
dezook
Author:  Blkfxx [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
31zook wrote:
SierraDan wrote:
31zook wrote:
time be the first :D

Not the first.



Who else has charged a H25?


But this thread is about a G16B. :lol:
Author:  SierraDan [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Yeah, haha
Author:  31zook [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Blkfxx wrote:
31zook wrote:
SierraDan wrote:
31zook wrote:
time be the first :D

Not the first.



Who else has charged a H25?


But this thread is about a G16B. :lol:


Image
Author:  shiv [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
i was / still possibly want to do the same. i was thinking of using a small amr300 or 500.
Author:  shiv [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Can anyone help me with getting my head around cc to PSI maths?

Car red line: 6,000rpm (Roughly but I rarely go pass 4k and never get to 5k)
AMR 500 red line: 16,000rpm
Derived max pulley ratio: ~2.6:1

AMR 500 air flow: 500cc/rev
in³ to cc: 1in³ = ~16.387cc

Engine Drive Pulley Diameter: 130mm
500 Pulley Diameter: ~65mm
Pulley Ratio: 130mm:65mm = 2:1

1.6L engine has ~1,598cc across 4 cylinders, of which 2 are open per rev so actual capacity per rev:
~1,598cc / 2 = ~799cc

500 blows ~500cc of air per rev so multiply by the pulley ratio for actual:
~500cc * 2 = ~1000cc

So ~1000cc of air is compressed into ~799cc of space per rev.
The only bit I'm not sure on is how to calculate the psi from these figures.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I expect this next bit to be completely wrong...

Atmospheric pressure is 1bar (14.5psi), N/A engines run at atmospheric pressure so:

14.5psi / ~799cc = 0.01814
~1,000cc * 0.01814= 18.1psi - 14.5psi = 3.64 psi boost ???

Then there is also the chargers efficiency?
Author:  JrZook [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
shiv wrote:
Can anyone help me with getting my head around cc to PSI maths?

Car red line: 6,000rpm (Roughly but I rarely go pass 4k and never get to 5k)
AMR 500 red line: 16,000rpm
Derived max pulley ratio: ~2.6:1

AMR 500 air flow: 500cc/rev
in³ to cc: 1in³ = ~16.387cc

Engine Drive Pulley Diameter: 130mm
500 Pulley Diameter: ~65mm
Pulley Ratio: 130mm:65mm = 2:1

1.6L engine has ~1,598cc across 4 cylinders, of which 2 are open per rev so actual capacity per rev:
~1,598cc / 2 = ~799cc

Actually air intake would be max volumetric efficiency * engine capacity/2 so for a 4 valve could use a VE of roughly 80%. Therefore, air consumed = ~(1600*0.8 )/2 = 640cc/rev

500 blows ~500cc of air per rev so multiply by the pulley ratio for actual:
~500cc * 2 = ~1000cc * SC efficiency if required

So ~1000cc of air is compressed into ~799cc of space per rev.
The only bit I'm not sure on is how to calculate the psi from these figures.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I expect this next bit to be completely wrong...

Atmospheric pressure is 1bar (14.5psi), N/A engines run at atmospheric pressure so:

14.5psi / ~799cc = 0.01814
~1,000cc * 0.01814= 18.1psi - 14.5psi = 3.64 psi boost ???

Then there is also the chargers efficiency?

So pressure ratio (PR)= (SC displacement per rev*pulley ratio)/air intake = 1000cc/640cc = 1.56
Therefore boost pressure = atmospheric pressure*(PR-1) = 8.23 psi


Something like that off the top of my head
Dan
Author:  shiv [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Ah thanks a bunch
Author:  shiv [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Being doing a lot more searching for info on this

I have some questions still. looking at BOVs on ebay that are adjustable, do you adjust it so it set a 1psi over what you are trying to achieve and the vac line controls when It blows off when you take your foot off the pedal?

still researching other parts needed. like a wide band O2 sensor? and I have no clue tackling the ecu (as I know what they do just not how they do it). I rather leave the stock one in.

If anyone want to let me know of things required besides: (for running 3-5psi)

The supercharger
Intercooler(optional)
BOV
Custom brackets and piping
wide band O2 Sensor

Fuel regulator?
ECU?
Author:  mnemonix [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
shiv wrote:
Being doing a lot more searching for info on this

I have some questions still. looking at BOVs on ebay that are adjustable, do you adjust it so it set a 1psi over what you are trying to achieve and the vac line controls when It blows off when you take your foot off the pedal?

still researching other parts needed. like a wide band O2 sensor? and I have no clue tackling the ecu (as I know what they do just not how they do it). I rather leave the stock one in.

If anyone want to let me know of things required besides: (for running 3-5psi)

The supercharger
Intercooler(optional)
BOV
Custom brackets and piping
wide band O2 Sensor

Fuel regulator?
ECU?



You're going about it trying to use the BOV to regulate boost pressure. On a supercharged setup this is achieved via correct pulley sizing.
If you're running stock ECU, the wideband O2 sensor (with an appropriate controller) can tell you when the AFR's are wrong, but you'll have almost no way to fix the problem.
It really sounds to me like you're not done the research needed to make this work.

Start with an ECU with fuel and timing control, then calculate the pulley size required to provide the airflow for your chosen supercharger, and make pulleys and a mounting bracket to suit.
Author:  shiv [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
I have worked that out. I read somewhere a bov are still used for the milliseconds of the valves closing ect.

I have lots to still learn, thats why im asking.

So the pulley ratio controls your psi, and an aftermarket ecu for controlling fuel and timing?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Yep..
Author:  shiv [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
Sounds quite simple. (I know there is alot of tuning ect) but the hardware side of things isnt much
Author:  russgt [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supercharging a G16B
got_bar_work wrote:
Would nos be a option.

Agree with this.

Why dont you chuck a nos setup on. Doesnt need to be major. Do a wet setup wich will give the extra fuel with it.

Guys on mighty car mods just did this with a S2000 and had excellent results. Check youtube for it.
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