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Transfer Case Build
https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4709		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Transfer Case Build
While deciding that I need bigger tyres and that gearing is one of those things that people seem to not realise until the tyres are on, I wanted to go the other way. Have the transfer case completely ready, with gears installed, to go in the car at the same time as tyres.

Unfortunately, gearing can be quite expensive and while still at school money does not come by too easily. My answer for this is to build a RockLobster transfer.

I already have a spare transfer case that is from a NT 1.3L Sierra, all I needed was a set of the 1L gears from an early Sierra. After waiting for some time to get them at a decent price, they are finally on the way!!!

So the plan is:

Get the gears cut and welded by someone else.

Press the gears onto the shafts here.

When putting the gears back into the case, fully rebuild the case with all new seals and bearings.

Leave the detent ball out and get a Evil Twin Stick kit so a true neutral can be slected.

Get a roctoy ring and adapt it into a a custom mount system that also raises the tranfer up higher than the chassis line.

So far I have:

A 1.3L Transfer Case

A set of 1L Transfer Gears

Need to get:

Rebuild Kit

Roctoy Ring

Evil Twin Stick

Questions for the moment:

Where is the best place to get the Rebuild kit from? Had a look on Outers and some testimonies said that they paid around $350 for a kit? Is this reasonable?

Would it make sense to rebuild the case at the same time? Or simply try it out and if there are any problems rebuild?

Is it best to get the Evil Twin Stick straight from the manufacturers? (http://www.zukeviltwin.com/index.html) Or is there somewhere cheaper?

I will update this as I go and hopefully it won't take aslong as the Rear Axle Build :roll: :wink:

Thanks.
Author:  joeblow [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
when getting gears welded you do realise that they need to be anealed first and then re-hardened?
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
Didn't do now though, who would be able to do that for me? What sort of shops?
Author:  keechox [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
i got a rebuild kit from lockedup4x4.com.au. was well priced and shipped quickly.
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
Yeah i was looking at that, does it come with the needle bearings aswell or just the roller bearings? Is it necessary to change the needle bearings?
Author:  Bruce [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
Change all. CBC have a complete kit as well.
Author:  shep [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
i wouldn't worry about the twin sticks ether. i got a rebuild kit from locktup,
had all the bearings and they were decent Japanese ones to.
Author:  shep [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
what size tyres are you going to run. i had a 1ltr case with 32's for a while and it was adequate. personally i would run a 1ltr while i saved for propper diff or trans gears.
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
only going as high as 31's i think, the biggest would be 31 Simex Centipedes which measure like 32" new. A RockLobster is not the same as just a 1ltr, it gives more reduction in low range. Once the gearset is made up and everything is good it is the exact same as the 4.16 Calmini Gears. I may go for ven lower reduction in the future but for now i think that this will be more than adequate.

Still undecided about the twin stick. I was thinking of just leaving the detent ball out and learning the new patterns, or just not worrying about it at all.

With these gears and a true 31" tyre the overall gearing would be out in high range by only 6% and would be 58% lower than stock low range. For the cost of the gears i think that it is more than worth it, even if it is only temporary.
Author:  wb800 [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
Hey mate whos making these for you
Author:  Damo [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
Zook_Fan wrote:
For the cost of the gears i think that it is more than worth it, even if it is only temporary.


I disagree. By the time you chase around finding who can cut and shut your gears, then have them do it you're better off just selling your 1 litre case gears to someone else and buy some off the shelf. As Shep said, he got his with a rebuild kit. While you have it apart check the condition of the counter shaft, if the case hardening has worn off where the needle roller bearings run (it is quite easy to tell if it has), the replace the countershaft as well (have to purchase genuine from Suzuki AFAIK).

As for moving the case up with the Roctoy ring, forget about it unless you have a bodylift under your rig.

What is a "true neutral"? The stock case has a neutral, ie the engine will not drive either the front or rear tailshaft. Granted the input and counter shaft will still be turning, but a twinstick isn't going to change that. If that's the only reason you want a twinstick don't waste your money on one.

Oh, and as for the rear axle build... :thefinger:
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
Damo wrote:
Zook_Fan wrote:
For the cost of the gears i think that it is more than worth it, even if it is only temporary.


I disagree. By the time you chase around finding who can cut and shut your gears, then have them do it you're better off just selling your 1 litre case gears to someone else and buy some off the shelf.


I am going to try to arrange with Fatzook to get them done as he was offering on NBS to have a set done for $175 for the cutting and welding.


Damo wrote:
As Shep said, he got his with a rebuild kit. While you have it apart check the condition of the counter shaft, if the case hardening has worn off where the needle roller bearings run (it is quite easy to tell if it has), the replace the countershaft as well (have to purchase genuine from Suzuki AFAIK).


will check it all out and post up some pics of everything when it is all apart.

Damo wrote:
As for moving the case up with the Roctoy ring, forget about it unless you have a bodylift under your rig.


will be in before this case goes in

Damo wrote:
What is a "true neutral"? The stock case has a neutral, ie the engine will not drive either the front or rear tailshaft. Granted the input and counter shaft will still be turning, but a twinstick isn't going to change that. If that's the only reason you want a twinstick don't waste your money on one.


righto wont worry about the twinstick, wouldnt mind 2 low but i cant really see how it would be completely necessary anyway

Damo wrote:
Oh, and as for the rear axle build... :thefinger:


just stirring :twisted:
Author:  royce [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
is it a late 1 litre case they are differnt to early ones and wont work

if it is a late case just run it till you save for a series 1 for bugger all, then sell me the 1 litre case, try and do this before June :)
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
nope it is an early case as in pre 4wd switch. not getting the case only the gears to save a bit in frieght.
Author:  royce [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
gears are different, wont work if memory serves me correct
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
any way to tell by looking at the gears?
Author:  royce [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
yeah number of teeth, google around for Jeff Plethybridge I think its spelt, he has some good info
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
Oscar may be able to clear it up for us as he has done this before and is in his build: http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... c&start=75

Oscar could you clarify if the gears need to come from a 1L transfer with a switch or if the gears are the same?
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Sat May 02, 2009 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
1L gears showed up late Friday afternoon! Will be pulling the 1.3 transfer down on monday. I am still not sure about the gear ratios though. Anyone know where there would be a list of all models transfer gearing ratios?
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Sun May 03, 2009 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
I have found this websiteL http://ironbark.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au/~jeff/xfer2.htm

I am still a little confused by it though :roll:. I think that the picture shows the gears as they are once they are cut and welded? or is the pic just a shot of the early transfer it came out of?

Also is there any mods to be done to a NT transfer to fit it into a WT?
Author:  Mike [ Sun May 03, 2009 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
Zook_Fan wrote:
Also is there any mods to be done to a NT transfer to fit it into a WT?


just take the handbrake of the transfer and swap the flanges and thats it
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Sat May 30, 2009 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
mkay well after a less than compliant NT transfer became a little more compliant i have come up with this (all i could do before camera went flat):

I know this is crap quality but it shows the gears lined up. The ones in or closest to the case are the 1.3L gears, further away are the 1L gears.
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

The sizes of the high output shaft and the rod that holds the gears that fits between the high and low gearing is the exact same. HOWEVER the size of the low output shaft is marginally smaller in diameter. I still think it could work i may just need a spacer for the 1L shaft to have the 1.3 bearing. This would mean i also need the 1L flange as well which i dont have at the moment :roll:

anyway have a look at the pics and send any suggestions my way!
Author:  ball [ Sun May 31, 2009 3:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
Just go to a decent bearing supplier and ask for a bearing with the OD and ID that you want.

Unless you are really good at obtaining accurate sizes on a lathe then you won't have any joy making a spacer.
Author:  jamienoble [ Sun May 31, 2009 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
might be a bit late now but i bought my gears through locktup aswell. very helpful good service extremely happy and if you spend and extra 70 or 80 bucks you get a kit which replaces every gasket seal and bearing in the whole case im pretty sure!! just a suggestion anyway.
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
ball wrote:
Just go to a decent bearing supplier and ask for a bearing with the OD and ID that you want.

Unless you are really good at obtaining accurate sizes on a lathe then you won't have any joy making a spacer.


thanks for that didnt even think to do it that way :roll:. I am pretty good with the lathe but a shim would take more mucking around to achieve worse results.
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
Ok so I have figured out how I am going to approach this now:

For the Input Shaft:

Instead of just taking the bearings off one and pressing them onto the other gears, I am going to have to measure the outside diameter to match the transfer and the inside diameter to match the shaft and just order them through a local bearing supplier. Even though the spline count is different, I am going to source an old 1L flange, cut the bolt pattern off and weld a WT bolt pattern to the old flange.

For the Output Shaft:

This will be the same as a normal rockhopper, just press the old high output off and press the new output on.

For the Counter Gears:

Now this is the tricky bit and the part I need advice for. Now the pin that goes through the centre, that the bearings are on, is the same diameter for both of them. That makes it seem simple but I dont know which one to use? I know that the bigger gear from the 1L set needs to be welded to the small gear of the 1.3L set but which shaft should I use? The skinny one or the thick one, I have both of the shafts so that will not matter to much.

Also what is the correct procedure to cut and weld gears. I know that they have to be heat treated when going both ways but what is the method for the heat treating? Do i just heat it like crazy with a oxy and leave it to cool? What is the go? Cheers for any help.
Author:  ball [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
Heat treating is a lot more complex than just heating the crap out of it and letting it cool.

It needs to be done in a temperature controlled furnace, usually under vacuum to avoid any contaminants. Other gasses or chemicals can be added to create different properties to the material being treated. The base material will have a lot to do with the process required.

I wouldn't bother trying to butcher parts to make them do something they weren't designed to do, but that is just me.

How much is your time worth ? Just save your pennies and buy the right gears and forget about it. Do you want to always worry that you are going to be in the middle of nowhere and your weld fails. Walking sucks.

Having said all that I have modified a gearbox for a guy that had a hill climbing car. I cut the gears off the input shaft from one gearbox and fitted them to his original one. I chopped most of the old gear off with a sinker EDM. Then I ground what was left down to a nominal size in a cylindrical grinder. I surface ground 2 flats on the shaft to provide some driving force. Then the gear that was to be fitted to the shaft I used a wire EDM to cut the internal profile in the gear to match the main shaft outside profile (with a suitable interference fit). Then I heated the gear to the right temperature to give me clearance and slipped it on to the shaft. When it cooled I TIG welded the shaft to the gear across where the flats were. As soon as I had finished welding I checked the temperature of the gear and I could still hold my hand on it. Then I did basically the same thing to the matching gear. None of the parts were ever heated to an excessive temperature that would cause problems. The whole process from start to finish had about 12hours in it. When you are paying $100+ per hour it gets expensive. The guy was happy to pay it as there were no other options available to give him a super low first gear and still retain rest of his gears as they were.

I explained all of my concerns to this guy before I started the job and he said it didn't matter if it broke because he would just push it back on the trailer and tow it home. It was purely a racing car and he didn't have to rely on breaking down with no way of getting assistance.

I only did it because I can and had the right equipment available. It really isn't something to do at home in a backyard with just enough information to be dangerous.
Author:  shep [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
ball makes shiny flash stuff :lol:
Author:  ball [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
shep wrote:
ball makes shiny flash stuff :lol:


Only when he feels like it 8)
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transfer Case Build
well this project was a bust. turns out that the gears in the early 1L transfers are set at different lengths apart to the latter model ones. On a side note how the hell do you get the speedo gear out?
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