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NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
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Author:  darz [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
hi guys, i'm a complete newbie to zooks and need some advice. we have just bort a 89 soft top sierra with 31's and plan to have some serious fun but i am gettin differing opinions re suspension.

currently it is stock and the tyres scrape at the slightest bump in the road. although the car is a pure weekend toy i still want it to handle safely on the road so we dont have to trailer it.

so far i have been told by varying sources the best bang for ya buck suspension upgrade is...

1. 2" body lift

2. spring over axle conversion using standard springs to maintain ride complyance

3. suzisport 50mm springs/HD shox package

4. vitara axle conversion (bc u get coil over axle standard plus wider track and strongers diffs appearently!)

at this stage i am leaning towards the suzisport spring kit and with a RTC steering damper as this seems the most simple and reliable upgrade. mite even install their 2" body lift as well if it wont have adverse effects.

what r the pro's and cons of each method??

thanx in advance...mitch

PS. can wait to meet up with u guys and get dirty
Author:  steve [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
Welcome to the site mitch!

what state are you in?

Bodylift - possibly, do you want it to be legal? you'll need to get it approved by Department of Transport.

Spring over sucks, but i guess it's a really cheap way to get a lot higher, but you would have to do a fair bit of work to make sure everything works, like a track bar so you don't twist the diff around and bend springs etc, (not legal in Qld.)

Spring lift - i'd go with that one

dunno about the vitara axles, but i wouldn't bother. If you want stronger and coils, just get hilux diffs and go all the way, which would mean a fair bit of fab work, (not legal in qld)

with the spring lift you could try extended shackles to get another inch higher, and that should clear the 31s, but you may have to lower your bumpstops so the wheel doesn't go to high in to the wheel arch.

or the spring lift plus the body lift would clear them pretty well.
Author:  royce [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
Hi Mitch, welcome to the world of the sierra :wink:

you really have 2 seperate issues to deal with here so I'll break em up

to fit 31's you need to get a bit more clearance in the front wheel arches, the 2 most common ways to do this are
bodylift, 2" blocks to lift the body from chassis, you still need to hammer the rear edge of the fron wheel arch and cut off the bumper supports from the front of the chassis, pros are it looks 8) and is pretty easy to do, cons, its hard to get legal (in QLD at least) if your worried about that as your 31's arent legal anyway and it does raise your centre of gravity so tis easier to tip

the other way is a 'virtual lift' basically you are moving the flare and wheel arch lip up 2 inches and modifying the wheel arch (with a big hammer) to get the room you need, this can look a bit funny and it more work (panel cutting and welding is needed, as well as shifting the diff forward a bit) but is more legal and keeps the centre of gravity down a bit so your more stable.
something else to consider with 31's is it does bad things to your gearing, making it hard to climb hills (and go back down) so you need to look at correcting that with pref a rockhopper or at least a 1 litre transfer

now to the lift, something like some OME springs and longer shocks is a pretty straight forward was to get some lift and flex, the suzisport kit is very good for what you get but a little bit of running around gets you just a bit better
if your willing to put some effort into it you can go the whole hog with RUF (rear up front, you get some rear springs and reset them and put em in the front with some extended mounts) then some lifter rears in the back and new shock mounts and shocks and your laughing

now what would I do? sell the 31's, get some nice 235/75 MTR's, some OME soft springs, Hilux rear shocks for the back and VS commodore wagon rear shocks for the front and go out and drive the pants off it knowing its stable, reliable and will work well

once you get to the point of being able to outdrive it and want to throw more money at it then start looking at all the big mods that just make em break all the time :)
Author:  Drover_Pete [ Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
royce wrote:
now what would I do? sell the 31's, get some nice 235/75 MTR's, some OME soft springs, Hilux rear shocks for the back and VS commodore wagon rear shocks for the front and go out and drive the pants off it knowing its stable, reliable and will work well

once you get to the point of being able to outdrive it and want to throw more money at it then start looking at all the big mods that just make em break all the time :)

I totally agree with Royce
Author:  darz [ Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
thanx for the advice royce

ok, i will forget axle swaps and body lifts for the time being. Also, the guards are gettin flared as far as possible this week (not stressed about paint cracks) and i will probably do some "persuading" of some of the seems and supports under there too.

ok, now for suspension. i like the idea of a one-stop-shop with the suzisport kit but i'm willing to follow ur advice if the parts arnt too hard to come by or more expensive than the suzisport gear.

1. when u say "soft" springs, did sierra's come from the factory with differing spring rates? if so, how easy are the soft ones to find and how can i tell if i've got the rite ones in the back already?

2. when u say hilux and VS shocks are u meaning OEM shocks and will these bolt strate into a sierra? also, the suzisport kit says their shocks are "long travel". i assume the shocks u recommend have atleast equal travel

3. what about extended shackles? should i get them and who sells em?

4. whats the cost of all this??
Assuming i get a set of second hand rear springs and get them and my current rears reset, then buy new hilux and VS shocks and also new spring bushes am i goin to spend alot more than the suzisport kit which is 800 supply.

provided the shocks arent too expensive and the spings aren't hard to find then i will probably start sourcing parts this week

cheers
Author:  Drover_Pete [ Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
darz wrote:
what about extended shackles? should i get them and who sells em?

Someone is selling some on NBS...but they are illegal in QLD.
Author:  dino [ Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
hey guys, this is mitch (on NBS im dino tifosi BTW)

darz is my gf but i thort i better stop using her account :)

ok, i did see those shackles on NBS but thort some1 mite make pro lookin ones that wont get defected :)

can they be blue plated? what are the cons to fitin them??

thanx...mitch
Author:  royce [ Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
oops, OME in 4x4 suspension terms means Old Man Emu, suspension made by ARB, they do different rates from light load (soft) to extra heavy duty (stiff)

the vs and hilux shocks will give you more travel than the suzisport stuff for less money to boot, go for the gabrial brand from supercheap, seems to work well

not sure on cost really youd have to do a ring around but the suzisport kit will still be a good option for you
Author:  Drover_Pete [ Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
dino wrote:
ok, i did see those shackles on NBS but thort some1 mite make pro lookin ones that wont get defected :)

I think Fatzook will make them for you...there are also Scissor Shackles that you may want to look into.

dino wrote:
can they be blue plated?

Don't shoot the messenger, but page 5 of the QT modifications pdf says
"Suspension coil springs must not be shortened by cutting
or heating. Leaf spring suspensions must not be raised
by the use of extended shackles, adjustable metal plates
or by placing the leaf springs to the opposite side of the
axle."
"http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/qt/LTASinfo.nsf/ReferenceLookup/Modification_Jan05v2.pdf/$file/Modification_Jan05v2.pdf"
Author:  royce [ Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
yep correct they are illegal, as the extra length changes the way the suspension reacts in sideways movement which makes the suspension more rolly, which does help with flex though :wink:

Bruce can also make up some very high quality urethane bushes that will out do all aspects of any rubber or urethance bush you can get, highly recommended
Author:  dino [ Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
sorry for all the questions... i am very green!

the soft OME springs u sugested in ur first post.... is there a choice on lift hight increases or should i have them reset? also, just get the standard kit or get 2 sets of rears and do RUF setup?

will the extra lateral movement of extended shackles mean less control on road or more chance of tipping over??

aren't rubber bushes better for the bush? i know they wear faster but wouldnt they offer a bit more comfort?



also, on a different track, as the front diff is only engaged at lower speeds is there any drama in welding it up instead of payin big bux for a locker???

thanx again.....
Author:  royce [ Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
they are all 50mm, from soft to rock hard, dont get them reset as it will muck up the shackle angle

yes the extra movement in the shackles equals more squirm on road, you get used to it but I'm glad I dont have to put up with it anymore

IMHO rubber bushes are a falacy, yes rubber bushes are squishier than the urethane ones you get at most shops, but rubber also swells and bites into everything so thet dont allow the shackle to pivot like its supposed to
Plus if you get urethane bushes that are squishy like rubber, its best of both worlds :wink:

I dont like weded front diffs cause its impossible to steer and wrecks your turning circle unless you are willing to unlock a hub all the time, but others love em
Author:  dino [ Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
ok, i think i got enough info to start shopping. royce, much thanks for all your help... u have saved me alot of pain

so am i gettin front and back OME springs or 2 sets of rears?

cheers

mitch
Author:  royce [ Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
can you weld and fabricate stuff? if your game do a bit of searching for RUF on a few forums and see if you like what you see
Author:  oscar [ Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Suzuki-Sierra-Ex ... dZViewItem
Author:  dino [ Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
went to ARB today and got the info on their stuff....

their kit costs about the same as suzisports but includes new U clamps and several other small items that arent listed on the suzisport website. the drawback is they r only rated at 40mm lift not the full 50mm of the suzisport kit

any thorts
Author:  royce [ Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
dont bother with any of it bar the springs

the shocks are actually too short to fit a lifted sierra, but its not a 100 seies so they dont care
the bushes are too stiff
and dont let em quote you the crappy dakar springs
Author:  dino [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
i didnt realise they made more than one type of spring.... im not sure which type i was quoted on

also, if i get their springs do i have to wait till i source long travel shox b4 i can fit em or can i stick em on with standard shox......yes i know the shox will botton out first

mitch
Author:  royce [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
pretty sure they are all the same price anyway

yes you can, for the cool factor :wink: but its doubling up on work
Author:  dino [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
cheers for all the help royce

all my quote says is OME light duty

i will stick the springs in bc at the mo i cant even drive it on the street without tearing up the guards.....2" springs and stock shox will allow enough clearance for potholes at least
Author:  dino [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
btw...what does bruce charge for his bushes?
Author:  royce [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
yeah thats the soft ones

Depends on what mood he's in, cranky old bugga :wink:

send ya G/F it'll be cheaper :D
Author:  dino [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
last question.... what about king springs? im told they r more like 70mm lift (as oppossed to OME 40mm)
Author:  royce [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
rubbish, same amount of lift, youll probably get 70mm from where you are now due to sagging

king lose 15mm once you mod em to ride half good as well :wink:
Author:  Taff [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NEWBIE HELP.....need a lift!
Drover_Pete wrote:
royce wrote:
now what would I do? sell the 31's, get some nice 235/75 MTR's, some OME soft springs, Hilux rear shocks for the back and VS commodore wagon rear shocks for the front and go out and drive the pants off it knowing its stable, reliable and will work well

once you get to the point of being able to outdrive it and want to throw more money at it then start looking at all the big mods that just make em break all the time :)

I totally agree with Royce


digging up an old thread...

this is basically the path im following atm, and now im looking for my shocks. Is theres a certain year the hilux shocks come from or are the all the same. i assume IFS is different?.
with these shocks will i need a bumpstop extension?

im only going to lift the 40mm from the springs, i highly doubt i will bother with extended shackles as its my daily driver.

the plan is to eventually go to 31MTRs with alot of guard bashing or maybe a small body lift if necessary.... im trying to keep it low as possible.

don't confuse this as a "how do i fit 31s what do i need" thread
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