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G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
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Author:  jimbo_jones [ Sat May 30, 2009 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
my mate is changing his clutch in his 88 sierra he has a mk 1 GTI motor in it with the std GTI flywheel and has a std flywheel out of a sierra it came of a G13A the sierra flywheel is bigger than the gti one and starter wont fit he wants to use the sierra flywheel as it should give me more toque down low due to being heavier.

the questions he has is :

1 dose he just need a starter out of a G13A to to make this work

2 dose he need the backing plate of the G13a As well the one that locates the starter motor

3 I there anything eles he needs to know?

thanks for any help

heres some pics of the 2 flywheels

Image

Image

Image

Image
Author:  royce [ Sat May 30, 2009 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
was this a running setup?

BTW a heavier flywheel with give you more of nothing!!!!!! excpet maybe a smoother idle

that like saying water in your tyres will make you go faster
Author:  Brett [ Sat May 30, 2009 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
sorry royce but a heavier fly wheel well make it feel like you have more low down toque and the engine will pull better down low, its to do with the rotation of mass. once some thing heavier is going it take less to keep it spinning.

its why hill climb racers don't lighten there fly wheels and circuit races do. the heavier fly wheel helps make the car pull from lower in the rev range and in hill climbing you want more toque to push you you the hill.

i had a gemini years ago that i took to a open day hill climb in canberra. it didn't go to well and every one i spoke to told me to take out the lighten fly wheel and chuck it in the bin before i do anything to the car.
Author:  jimbo_jones [ Sat May 30, 2009 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
royce wrote:
was this a running setup?

BTW a heavier flywheel with give you more of nothing!!!!!! excpet maybe a smoother idle

that like saying water in your tyres will make you go faster


yeah was running with the std gti flywheel
as said the sierra flywheel gives more low down tuque better for rock crawling
Author:  royce [ Sat May 30, 2009 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
Brett wrote:
sorry royce but a heavier fly wheel well make it feel like you have more low down toque and the engine will pull better down low, its to do with the rotation of mass. once some thing heavier is going it take less to keep it spinning.

its why hill climb racers don't lighten there fly wheels and circuit races do. the heavier fly wheel helps make the car pull from lower in the rev range and in hill climbing you want more toque to push you you the hill.

i had a gemini years ago that i took to a open day hill climb in canberra. it didn't go to well and every one i spoke to told me to take out the lighten fly wheel and chuck it in the bin before i do anything to the car.


that is utter bullshit, heard of Kinetic energy?

so if I go and weld 2 flywheels together I should be careful I dont start snapping axles and doing big wheelies everywhere from all teh awsome torque?

the crank has to turn it, heavier flywheel takes more effort to turn, that effort doesnt get to the wheels so you go slower or need more pedal for the same acceleration, there is a way to calculate what removing rotational mass is equiv to in terms of static weight removal but its complex so a rule of thumb is someting like X4

all it will do is help when you need the extra rotational mass, like at idle when the power pulses are further apart so the mass helps smooth it over

and to keep harping on what you posted, yep heavy mass is easier to keep turning at a constant speed but it still always takes more power
Author:  jimbo_jones [ Sat May 30, 2009 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
can anyone answer the original Q?
Author:  Built4thrashing [ Sat May 30, 2009 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
i wish someone had told the early steam engine builders they didnt need such heavy fly wheels. could have saved them alor of expense in all that un-necessary matal spinning the belt drive equipment.

Heavier spinning mass will help low end a bit but not as much as you think. It will help with keeping thing moving for longer but will do little for performance as it takes more power to get it spinning.


An engine with a lighter flywheel will rev faster than one with a heavy fly wheel but it will also slow down quicker as there is less spinning mass.


B4T
Author:  Brett [ Sat May 30, 2009 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
maybe i worded it wrong, it won't give you more power it will let you use more down lower in the rev range so it will feel like you have more.

a friend down there put a lightened flywheel in his 350 corvette (had a big cam, head work, stroker crank. was a cranky street engine) and it was even more of a pig to drive and wouldn't idle under 1500 with the light fly wheel and would stall all the time. he hated it and gave the wheel away.

i never got back to the hill cimb track to compare times but did change the flywheel. on a hill on the monaro hwy just near rose cottage (any one in ACT will know it) with the lighten fly wheel i had to change down to 4th to keep on 100 with the std fly wheel it sat on 100 in 5th no worries. car was slower over 1/4 mile but was easier to drive and didn't bog down if i wasn't reving it to where the cam came in.
Author:  royce [ Sat May 30, 2009 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
is the small flywheel flat or stepped?
is the big flywheel flat or stepped?
does the old pressure plate fit the bigger flywheel?
does the bigger flywheel fit inside the bellhousing?

AFAIK you use the sierra flywheel in a GTI conversion anyway, and a gti uses the same clutch as one of the WT ones, I cant remember how 'fat' a sierra flywheel is but sure tis not a vit flywheel you have there? they are pretty chunky (must be why vits accelerate faster than sierras :wink:)
Author:  Mike [ Sat May 30, 2009 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
that does look a bit thick of a sierra flywheel from memory
Author:  jimbo_jones [ Sat May 30, 2009 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
na came of G13A sierra N/T
Author:  Mike [ Sat May 30, 2009 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
i just went to look at my nt motor and flywheel and its definatly thinner than the one you got there but it is thicker than the gti one
Author:  Damo [ Sat May 30, 2009 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
Hey you bunch of sandy vag's :P

Read this
Author:  jonno_racing [ Sat May 30, 2009 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
royce wrote:

that is utter bullshit, heard of Kinetic energy?

so if I go and weld 2 flywheels together I should be careful I dont start snapping axles and doing big wheelies everywhere from all teh awsome torque?

the crank has to turn it, heavier flywheel takes more effort to turn, that effort doesnt get to the wheels so you go slower or need more pedal for the same acceleration, there is a way to calculate what removing rotational mass is equiv to in terms of static weight removal but its complex so a rule of thumb is someting like X4

all it will do is help when you need the extra rotational mass, like at idle when the power pulses are further apart so the mass helps smooth it over

and to keep harping on what you posted, yep heavy mass is easier to keep turning at a constant speed but it still always takes more power


LMFAO its amassing every time i read anything of yours i laugh more and start to believe that you were borne in a cave.... where did you get your understanding of scientific principals???? play school??? ok mister wise arse.. if a fly wheel makes NO difference :roll: why is the sierra one twice as think as a G13A swift? what they just had a gap to fill up????? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

for those who need to know, u will need to use the sierra flywheel 8), this way everything lines up as it should, the gti has a MUCH smaller imput shaft in the gearbox!

also my zook has SO much more drivability down low with the gti motor and heavy fly wheel than my mates that is gti fly! his just rev's harder!

so the long and the short, sacrifice a bit of top end 7K+ and run the sierra fly! u will love it!


LOL
Author:  royce [ Sat May 30, 2009 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
jonno_racing wrote:
royce wrote:

that is utter bullshit, heard of Kinetic energy?

so if I go and weld 2 flywheels together I should be careful I dont start snapping axles and doing big wheelies everywhere from all teh awsome torque?

the crank has to turn it, heavier flywheel takes more effort to turn, that effort doesnt get to the wheels so you go slower or need more pedal for the same acceleration, there is a way to calculate what removing rotational mass is equiv to in terms of static weight removal but its complex so a rule of thumb is someting like X4

all it will do is help when you need the extra rotational mass, like at idle when the power pulses are further apart so the mass helps smooth it over

and to keep harping on what you posted, yep heavy mass is easier to keep turning at a constant speed but it still always takes more power


LMFAO its amassing every time i read anything of yours i laugh more and start to believe that you were borne in a cave.... where did you get your understanding of scientific principals???? play school??? ok mister wise arse.. if a fly wheel makes NO difference :roll: why is the sierra one twice as think as a G13A swift? what they just had a gap to fill up????? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

for those who need to know, u will need to use the sierra flywheel 8), this way everything lines up as it should, the gti has a MUCH smaller imput shaft in the gearbox!

also my zook has SO much more drivability down low with the gti motor and heavy fly wheel than my mates that is gti fly! his just rev's harder!

so the long and the short, sacrifice a bit of top end 7K+ and run the sierra fly! u will love it!


LOL


Why have you not crawled into a hole and died yet moron?

I notice you didnt put 2 and 2 together yet and see where I asked if it was a running conversion yet cause just like you said you have to use the sierra flywheel.

And its heavier cause it smooths things out down low and allows for a lower idle cumstain, I never said there wasnt advantages to a heavier flywheel, only that there is no way known it will give you more torque

Congratulations for being probably the least intelligent person most of us will come across this year :goodjob:
Author:  Mike [ Sat May 30, 2009 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
i love these sort of threads lol
Author:  jimbo_jones [ Sat May 30, 2009 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
So is it that all thats needed is the sierra starter out of the g13a to make this work?
Author:  shep [ Sat May 30, 2009 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
jimbo_jones wrote:
So is it that all thats needed is the sierra starter out of the g13a to make this work?


sierra flywheel, sierra starter. at least i recon it would be.
might be a case of find a starter and shove it in the hole and see if it works. :roll:
Author:  jonno_racing [ Sat May 30, 2009 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
jimbo mate pm me.. i iwill give you my mobile number and u can call me if you like.
Author:  jimbo_jones [ Sun May 31, 2009 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
thanks shep will let my mate know
Author:  shep [ Sun May 31, 2009 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
don't take my thoughts as gospel though cos i am only guessing. :lol:
Author:  jonno_racing [ Sun May 31, 2009 3:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
cool, just totaly ignore the guy who JUST did the conversion.
Author:  Damo [ Sun May 31, 2009 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
jonno_racing wrote:
cool, just totaly ignore the guy who JUST did the conversion.


Just post it up on here so if someone else wants to do the conversion later down the track and does a search the info will be here.
Author:  jonno_racing [ Sun May 31, 2009 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
Damo wrote:
jonno_racing wrote:
cool, just totaly ignore the guy who JUST did the conversion.


Just post it up on here so if someone else wants to do the conversion later down the track and does a search the info will be here.


honesty i don't think i can be bothered.

want to know how??? LEARN IT YOUR FRACKING SELF!

i am just totaly amazed at the attitude and stupidity of some people on the internet.

i don't think i will bother posting stuff in tech, i will leave it to the people who know NOTHING and pretend to know everything.
Author:  Damo [ Sun May 31, 2009 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
Thanks for nothing :roll:
Author:  shep [ Sun May 31, 2009 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
jonno_racing wrote:
Damo wrote:
jonno_racing wrote:
cool, just totaly ignore the guy who JUST did the conversion.


Just post it up on here so if someone else wants to do the conversion later down the track and does a search the info will be here.


honesty i don't think i can be bothered.

want to know how??? LEARN IT YOUR FRACKING SELF!

i am just totaly amazed at the attitude and stupidity of some people on the internet.

i don't think i will bother posting stuff in tech, i will leave it to the people who know NOTHING and pretend to know everything.


fair dinkem mate, what is your fucken story. you come across as a fucking
spoiled little child. if you don't like the site why keep coming back.
the time it took you to type this shit you could have answered the question.
Author:  jonno_racing [ Sun May 31, 2009 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
jonno_racing wrote:

for those who need to know, u will need to use the sierra flywheel 8), this way everything lines up as it should, the gti has a MUCH smaller imput shaft in the gearbox!



i already did.
Author:  jimbo_jones [ Sun May 31, 2009 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
I all ready know you can yes the sierra fly wheel and it's better for it if you go back and look at the orginal post before every one had there rant mabye you would know what I was asking
Author:  Brett [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
sorry we all got off topic.

he will need the backing plate, starter and fly wheel of the sierra. that way every thing matches up.

if you use the gti flywheel and sierra starter the ring gear teeth probably wont engage.
Author:  jonno_racing [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G13B GTi flywheel compared to G13A flywheel
yes to all. you will need sierra everything

mine never actulay had a backing plate in it. and it works fine.
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