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Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 32"!
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Author:  sagi [ Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 32"!
Hello everybody...
Recently bought a Suzuki SJ410K...

it now sits on a Calmini 3.5" with shackle reverse and flat leafs, SPOA, 30" tires.
My plan is to make it SPUA with 32" tires, such as 235/85/16 on GV rims, with guard chopping.

This is where you come in… I need your advices with the suspension setup…
I thought to go with CJ rear and RUF with keeping the shackle reverse… but I am open to new suggestions.

Another question if I may… to stay with original steering method with lowered pitman arm or to go for high steer from Low-Range?

Regards…
Author:  jdk81 [ Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Needs help planning supspenssion on SJ410k pickup
It must be stupid high and only on 30s.

Glad to see you're fixing the stupid.
Return to spua
RUF
Run good leaves front and rear.
Remove the shackle reversal
Keep (or return to) stock steering (possibly power steering from jimny or vit)

This will give a little lift, then do some guard trimmimg and happy days
Author:  sagi [ Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Needs help planning supspenssion on SJ410k pickup
jdk81 wrote:
It must be stupid high and only on 30s.

Glad to see you're fixing the stupid.
Return to spua
RUF
Run good leaves front and rear.
Remove the shackle reversal
Keep (or return to) stock steering (possibly power steering from jimny or vit)

This will give a little lift, then do some guard trimmimg and happy days


it does have a jimny PS..

should i really get rid of the SR? cant keep it and just make it righ with an arched RUF spring?

what is more reccomended for the rear? CJ - nerrow and flexiable, or YJ - longer, and softer but wider with less flex?
Author:  alien [ Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
do a search on shackle reversal, there's a fair bit of discussion on it, mainly related to brake dive / handling issues due to the caster being thrown way off stock specs under load. generally, it's not recommended.

I love the idea of RUF and CJ rear, that'd be sweet. just do a check on CJ springs. Originally i was going to use CJ for mine but availability was woeful at the time so i went hilux front leaves (wider) which are readily available. They are quite stiff though so i only run 2 leaves in the back with a trac bar and it still needs the doors in the tray to flex properly in the rear, but the front goes great. All in all it's very balanced.
Author:  sagi [ Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
I am not Aussie so here the CJ springs are common and can be found easily.
i read about the SR systems, and everyone says that if its done right than is a good thing.

cant i do it right?
as for th arched spring - no roblem.
i dont think that Calmini sell stuff that were not planned properly for road using...
Author:  sagi [ Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
another question...

i read somewhere that for RUF you dont need to change any mounts in the LWB pickup...
is that possiable?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
No, shackle reverse is pointless it's adding 2" of extra lift for no reason and reducing offroad capability. Throw it away. Yes, you have to move the front shackle hanger mounts to do RUF in a LWB- it's the same as any other SJ.
Author:  sagi [ Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
Gwagensteve wrote:
No, shackle reverse is pointless it's adding 2" of extra lift for no reason and reducing offroad capability. Throw it away. Yes, you have to move the front shackle hanger mounts to do RUF in a LWB- it's the same as any other SJ.


OK...got it!
shackle reverse out, RUF in...
i saw in Birko project he used RUF with only extended shackles...thats why i was confused.
Author:  jdk81 [ Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
You can drill the hanger to pull the leaves back and run longer shackles
you can just run longer shackles and need bumpstop spacing as steering will bind
or run longer shackles and pull the diff back so the steering doesnt bind.
Or drill rear hanger or move it back and move the front shackle hanger forwards and run stock shackles.

For spring longevity bumpstop spacing may be required in all of these options.

Having the front diff 1" forwards looks very nice in the wheel arch

There's a lot of info on ruf and i posted a while back about shackle measurements etc.
Author:  vet 180 [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
If I had your rig as it is right now, I would take off the reverse shackles and all calmini gear, sell to some poor sap. I would consider keeping the SPOA with power steer and convert to a stock YJ spring kit.

Something like this:
http://www.rocky-road.com/samurai-yj-conversion.html
Author:  sagi [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
vet 180 wrote:
If I had your rig as it is right now, I would take off the reverse shackles and all calmini gear, sell to some poor sap. I would consider keeping the SPOA with power steer and convert to a stock YJ spring kit.

Something like this:
http://www.rocky-road.com/samurai-yj-conversion.html


YJ was an option..
But i prefer to go SPUA and use virtual lift to make room for tires. maybe i shall go for YG all around if i am already making the chassy extension.

so what is better on front: RUF or YJ/CJ?

i am gonna use the same tire as in Birko's rig:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33710&p=653465&hilit=stockman+maruti#p653465
Author:  5ierra [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
I ran CJ rear and Rear Up Front in one of my Old LWB sierra and it was great. I'd bail on the Shackle reversal, partly for the issues mentioned above, but also because it will push the tires back into the firewall, which, if youre wanting to clearance the guards, makes it alot harder to have to cut out and repair the fire wall. It's alot easier to trim the headlight buckets and have the shackles in the stock position.

CJ on the front would be doable but you you will have to have a fairly lengthy chassis extension on the front to retain the stock wheel location. RUF with sierra rears would probably be easier and achieve enough flex.
Author:  MrRocky [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
I run the same setup you are trying to acheive
1" spacers are necessary on the front and 2" spacers in the rear to get the desired offset and clearance with the gv rims.
I run stock lwb rear springs up front (5 pack drivers side, 4 pack passenger) with 2" shackles which give a nice shackle angle and are a straight bolt up, no drilling or welding needed
Rear is calmini top spring on sagged efs 65mm rears with 2" shackles to stop them inverting.
A fair bit of hammer work in the gaurds is needed to eliminate rubbing.
My tyres are 235/85r16 hankooks that measure same as most 33"s i imagine other brands of 235 may fit easier.

Image
Author:  sagi [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
Roger that...

CJ rear, RUF with EFS in front. if I use WT axles will i still need the width spacer?
Author:  MrRocky [ Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
Mine are wt axles
Author:  sagi [ Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
Thanks alot guys for the help..

new question:
does the RUF and the fact that the axle moves forward means i need to change something in my steering?

I have a jimny PS, and from what i have learned from reading posts from the past, the vitara drop pitman arm is good, but non of the sellers has it in stock.

so what options do i have to fight bump steer, and the touching of the rods?
Author:  MrRocky [ Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
Redrill your diff locating perch and ubolt locator 15-20mm back as required.
You should aim for your wheel to wind up sitting dead center of your wheel arch for 32"s with minimal lift or u will have all kinds of clearance issues.
This can be a combo of redrilling spring hangers, shackle length,redrilling perches and seeing where your springs put the axle.
There is no set instructions or every car is the same mod guide.
Just test and tune as such to acheive your desired result
My last sierra had no steering issues with or without ps setup although it is very close to binding at some points ive never had an issue
Author:  sagi [ Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
MrRocky wrote:
Redrill your diff locating perch and ubolt locator 15-20mm back as required.
You should aim for your wheel to wind up sitting dead center of your wheel arch for 32"s with minimal lift or u will have all kinds of clearance issues.
This can be a combo of redrilling spring hangers, shackle length,redrilling perches and seeing where your springs put the axle.
There is no set instructions or every car is the same mod guide.
Just test and tune as such to acheive your desired result
My last sierra had no steering issues with or without ps setup although it is very close to binding at some points ive never had an issue



Thanks mick! great solution for me.

at the moment i am just setting up and learning what i need for this project. also bought many many parts to build it once and build it properly!

now I start planning the body work, as i wish to cut the roof and back off, reinforce whats left of the "cockpit" and make it a soft-top...
Author:  jdk81 [ Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
sagi wrote:
now I start planning the body work, as i wish to cut the roof and back off, reinforce whats left of the "cockpit" and make it a soft-top...


noooooooo!
Unless you are an awesome panel beater, I really think this is a terrible terrible idea.
Body work is hard to get nice, and for the majority of attempts it's the way to destroy your car.

Think long and very very hard.
Drive the car for a while before you chop it.
Author:  sagi [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
Hello again guys..

my pickup starting to take shape....Baleno 16v is in the process...

a question for everyone here:
can i go with 235/85/16 with standart rear shafts?
i have TT chromo's front...and it seems that rear HD shaft are nowhere to be found...
LROR said its a matter of almost a year for their set to arrive..

i do some rock crawling but i have a common sense and a light foot on the gas...
Author:  MrRocky [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
I drive my rig hard and smoke the rears plenty on rocks ect... never had a rear snap in many years. Wheeling regularly with other rigs on 32"s i have only seen 1 rear break and that was mainly due unlucky circumstances
Author:  MrRocky [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
However i found my last set of 32x11.5r15 alot more grippy on greasy rock.
Luckily w.a. it never rains but if i was over east coast and my car wasnt a daily i would reconsider my tyre choice
Author:  got_bar_work [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
Dont wast ur time unless u are going full floating axles.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
I disagree. 235 85's will be fine on stock rear axles in my opinion.
Author:  sagi [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
Thanks guys for your answers and patience.

i wish to stay with the suzuki axles but everyone here are not as optimistic as i am.
they all say that 32" is the Max tolerance for the suzuki shaft and that i should go with toyota axles. which is something that i dont fancy doing.

if i could find a kit for full floater rear i would buy one...but i cant find any.

my build plan is:
235/85/16 with Grand Vitara rims
1.6 16v baleno engine with EFI
Jimny power steer
RUF and CJ/YJ rear with 98" wheel base. still thinking what to do here...maybe YJ SPUA all 4 corners.
6.4 TT transfer gears, 5 speed gearbox
front and rear lockright
WT axles with NT spacing, trussed and Chromo's Front
Virtual lift
still searching for solution for the rear axle though...
still considering 1" body lift to lift the transfer and make Flat belly - even though i bought a transfer craddle
Still looking for solution to make a soft top like here: https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 18f0c40a52

Any thoughts?
this is all after i spent many many hours of reading and research...
i learn a lot from this forum and thankfull for your patience..
Author:  alien [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
I drove mine pretty hard on 31s with a rear locker for about 5 years before my rear axles got twisted and started making funny clunks etc. The warning signs are very obvious when you're looking for them. I think you'll be fine so long as you are aware what CAN happen, and try not to bounce the ass end around on high traction surfaces (ie: when it starts hopping, slip the clutch or back up and try again). After i twisted mine up i went full floater (JML) and now my uni joint is the weak spot (tried and tested).
Author:  J--A--C--K [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
If your really keen on the floater kit tanshi has a add in business directory pretty sure he dose or can do floaters.
You probaly don't need if like every one else has said. Though it would be really nice to have easily serviced rear bearings lol.
Author:  MrRocky [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
Yeah as long as u back of when the ass is bouncing you will be fine.

Ive done 60,000kms of driving harder than you could imagine with only a bit of twist which is to be expected
Author:  sagi [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
Thanks guys! talked to Tanshi...looking for some more details from him.

what do you say about body lift of 1" for flat belly?

or even more important - how can i make my body soft top like here: https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 18f0c40a52
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Improving susspension setup! from SPOA to SPUA, 30" to 3
Buy a soft top body and cut it down. There are major structural differences between the soft top and hard top bodies. You can't cut one into the other, you'll have a floppy mess.

The 1" body lift is so you can lift the transfer case up to make the underside of the car flat.

Steve.
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